Some questions on Waagh! Magic

hi, i got some questions on the Waagh! Spells. Are there errata for these cases, or how do/would you house rule it?


1) Led'z Go:

1.1 Does the Shaman have to see the Orc/Goblin which should be affected by the spell (as every spell needs LOS iirc)?



2) Oi! Gerroff!:

2.1 Does an affected model get an armour save when he collides with a wall or falls down from a building?
Because falling usually does not grant an armour save but a spell does if not otherwise mentioned. So which rule takes precedence?

2.2 Does this spell work 3-dimensional? Meaning: If a Shaman stands on the ground and casts the spell on a model on the first floor, does the model also get tossed in the air along the connecting line or only away from the Shaman on "constant height over ground"?

This might be relevant if the model falls down because of the spell, he might suffer hits of higher strength if falling from a higher height (e.g. 5" instead of 4").



3) Zzap!:

3.1 Can Zzap! be cast into close combat if the Shaman is standing OUTSIDE of this cc? (You're not allowed to SHOOT into cc, but its not exactly shooting, isn't it?)

3.2 What about if the Shaman is in base contact with an enemy model. Can he cast the spell at it? (I guess he can, but I'm not exactly sure)



4) Fooled Ya!: In certain occasions, the spell allows a 4" movement. How can this be done:

4.1 can he "fly" these 4" (e.g. onto a building / first floor etc.)?

4.2 can he "beam" 4" through walls, obstacles etc.?



5) Clubba:

5.1 Does the +2 Strength Bonus of the spell stack with Mighty Blow? (e.g. Shaman with S3 and Mighty Blow and the spell gets S5 or S6)?

5.2 Does this "club" cause critical hits?



6) Fire of Gork (same questions as for Zzap!):

6.1 Can "Fire of Gork" be cast into cc, if Shaman is OUTSIDE of this CC?

6.2 What about if the Shaman is in base contact with an enemy model. Can he
cast the spell at it?




I know these are a lot of questions. Therefore i indexed them for easier reference. You don't need to answer all of them, any answer is a great achievement for me

thanks a lot in advance!

going down the list as an Orc player myself...

1)No LOS is required - Orcs be psychic!

2)We roll with no armor saves on this one, as the magic doesn't do the damage, but the collision does....as far as it being 3-dimensional, that is a good question. I would say yes!

3)Zzap cannot be cast into combat, nor can any other magic spell unless otherwise noted - it is treated like shooting. My group plays that you can cast it into a model you are in hand to hand with though...

4)We don't play that 'Fooled yah!' can be used to move thru walls or fly - it has MANY uses though. Cast ledz go and then this each turn...you will strike first and NOTHING they opponent can do about it! Or even use it to charge a model ready to intercept (say an orge guarding a mage) only to fool him and poof away...thus giving your other orcs the opportunity to charge past without having to worry about the ogre that turn!

5)Yes and yes, it counts as a normal club....well....a badass club.

6) No shooting into CC, but we play that he can cast it against the model he is in base to base with during the shooting phase.

Hope that helped!

@figgy, thanks alot for your (fast) answers!

can you please indicate where the rules state that "no spell can be cast into combat unless otherwise noted"?

I found a passage that you may cast a spell into closecombat if the caster is in CC himself, but i found nothing about casting INTO cc from outside.

We had played for years that you can (no matter which spell list), so now i'm confused

BTW. great tactics, thanks a lot!

However, i don't quite understand your "ledz go and then fooled ya each turn"-strategy. How does that work exactly? Because: Of what use is the striking first, if you poof away before you hit? (as the magic phase is before the cc-phase)?

I could have sworn I read it somewhere, but I don't see an issue with casting into combat if the spell is something like a debuff...But, the way I look at it - The orc is still aiming Zzzzaap! At some poor git, thus it's kinda the same thing as firing an arrow. Good chance you may hit your orc buddy.

But hey, the core rules aren't that clear so do what your gaming group thinks is best...I will continue to look for an official answer and post it here when I find it.

maybe you got this impression from the "no magic missile into cc"-rule from Warhammer.

Well... Zzap! and Fire of Gork do look a lot like magic missiles to me. But i never saw such a rule in Mordheim so far.

Thanks for your offer to look around for an offical rule. I'll do the same... lets see who's first

Hehe, so far no good...was looking in the errata and got sidetracked looking at Empire in Flames stuff...

Could all have been my imagination. I know that some magic spells in Mordheim can't be cast into combat - Silver Arrows of Ara...(spelling?)...since you have to use your BS skill for it.

I checked all the FAQs i know of and found nothing either.

concerning the Silver Arrows of Arha i discovered an errata in the rules review of 2005:

Page 60, Silver Arrows of Arha
Replace the first sentence with:
“Unlike other spells, this cannot be cast whilst in hand-to-hand combat. The spell summons D6+2 arrows which the wizard can use to shoot against one enemy model.”

But this only concerns this one spell and doesnt say anything about casting it into cc from outside. mhh...

By the way... erm.. can you please re-explain that strike-first-fooled-ya-strategy of yours? i didnt get that before...

I would assume that you could not shoot it into combat, because you use your BS skill and is specifically states 'shooting' against a model.

Hehe, 'Led's Go!' combined with 'Fooled Yah!' is an awesome combo. At one point during a campaign a long time ago, I had a rather physically weak(for an orc) shaman. So my main focus was casting 'Led's Go' at the start of the game, and periodically casting 'Fooled yah!'....Since you cannot be charged when you cast 'Fooled yah!' you can keep 'Led's Go!' on for as long as you can keep making the 'Fooled yah!' tests.

Many times did the opponent want to take out my shaman so the orcs would quit being faster than elves, but they could never get to him!

**It is important to note that 'Led's Go!' is only on as long as the Shaman is standing, thus making these two a great combination.**

*************
Strategy number two I used was to use the Shaman to make interceptors worthless. Charge with shaman, charge past with your other orcs, POOF away with the shaman and the interceptor sits there confused.

concerning Arrows of Arha: You're right this does strongly imply that you can't cast it into cc. And I do second your interpretation concerning that spell.

But i think there can no analogy be drawn to other "ranged" spells, because usually you don't need to hit with such spells and they aren't affected by the caster's BS either. So i guess the question is still open for those...

regarding ledz go / fooled ya: I guess the key is NOT to choose the shaman to be the one with first strike. That was the reason why it didn't make sense to me in first place LOL. i mean, whats the sense of ledz go if you never get into cc, right? but if another model is striking first, a non-reachable shaman makes perfect sense! fabulous indeed

I got some questions about "Ledz Go" then:

1)When do you determine which one of the possible models within those 4" is affected? When you cast the spell or in cc-phase when it becomes relevant?

2)can you change the target of the spell each turn or do you have to stick to the same target until the spell ends?

3) does the shaman and the affected model have to stay within 4" until the spell ends or is this only necessary for the moment when the spell is cast?

I guess spells are a source of a neverending stream of questions LOL

From the Mordheim Rulebook:

"Spells are cast in the Shooting phase, and can be used even if the caster is in hand-to-hand combat."

So unless otherwise noted, any spell may be cast while in hand-to-hand combat.

I thought I read somewhere that spells had to be cast at the wizards close combat opponents but it's not in the rulebook as far as I can see.


Anyway, I've never read that spells follow the targeting restrictions for shooting that firing ranged weapons does. I think spells are precise enough to be fired into close combat. It just hits them, you know, like magic.

I was going to say Silver Arrows couldn't shoot into hand-to-hand combat, but now that I've read the rules I see that it doesn't actually say it follow the rules for shooting a ranged weapon, so I would guess it can! I mean it ignores ranged, cover and movement penalties so it's obviously still more precise than normal shooting.

****EDIT --- THIS IS FIGGY..FORGOT TO CHANGE USERS AT DUBSTYLES HOUSE....SORRY!****


That rule is for the caster being in hand to hand, not actually shooting into hand to hand....

And silver Arrows actually state in the descriptions that you cannot shoot it while in hand to hand. :p


And for the 'Ledz go!' questions...

1) From the moment the spell is cast onward...

2) It affects ALL orcs withing 4 inches only.

3)See above...have to be within 4 inches off the shaman at all time to gain the effects.

hero wrote:

I thought I read somewhere that spells had to be cast at the wizards close combat opponents but it's not in the rulebook as far as I can see.

I too would swear I have read this somewhere at least semi-official, but I will be blowed if I can find where I have read it. Comforting to know I am not going mad though...

@Pathfinder:

Ledz go affects EVERY orc + goblin within 4" as long as they stay within the range and the spell does not stop? good gracious!

I thought it would only affect ONE model within 4" that is to be chosen.

Are you sure? I mean is there something official about this? (or an errata or mod-comment)

Maybe I got a language problem here as a non-native speaker. I always thought "any" would mean in this case: "one of them but it does not matter which one"...

I would rather understand the spell the way you do, if there stood "EVERY model within 4" blabla..."

btw: thanks for your answers

Any orc or goblin will strike first if within range of this spell, if this was a targeted spell it would specify a target.

And yes, it stays up until the orc is knocked down or stunned. A very powerful spell indeed!