Handguns.

Pathfinder Dubstyles:
Play without the 'misfire'-rule. I don't think it does any good for mordheim...

@The Ultra-Mega Bob... your comments about crossbows being a better choice for Thunderers than handguns is valid. The only solution though (if you want one which not everyone does) is a house rule. I think that you've come at it with an interesting angle to give Thunderers a special rule that makes handguns better for them since it fits the fluff to arm Thunderers with handguns. The danger though is unbalancing the Dwarf Treasure Hunters as a warband. The other option then for house rules are weapon related (nerf crossbows or buff handguns) and have already been discussed here and elsewhere a lot.

I think though that you should just focus on playing (even if it is with crossbows instead of handguns) and have fun as sometimes I think that we seem to do too much thinking about the rules instead of just enjoying the game as it is even with its quirks and imperfect balance. There are some people on this forum that I admire because they seem to have this attitude but I don't want to take anything away from those who do want to tweak with the rules as the objective is to have fun and if tweaking the rules makes the game more fun then do it! (This is beginning to sound like a rant now so I will stop...)

In our last campaign I played Dwarf Treasure Hunters and only used crossbows as handguns were not viable to purchase over crossbows. I still had fun. We ended up not changing any rules for handguns in our current campaign (even though I had planned to do so initially). This was partly due to me playing Gunnery School of Nuln which gives discounts for blackpowder weapons so I didn't want to unbalance the warband accidentally and partly due to the fact that I just wanted to enjoy the game and let weapons (not armour though) stay how they are.

If my group makes some house rules in future campaigns then we might do as Von Kurst suggested and remove 'Quick Shot' from crossbows. I don't think that I would add a new skill to allow crossbows to be fired twice though (but I'm interested in hearing how your small tweak goes, Pathfinder Dubstyles). If that is still not enough then I'll give S5 to handguns (and hunting rifles).

i recently thought up the next sollution:

Just attach a bayonet on there and let it be a spear + handgun. (like napoleon times) for the same cost

handgun for 25 gc (compared to xbow) you trade shooting every turn for a extra -1 as.
and you get a spear for 10 gc when you are being charged. which most likely happens.

Paluke wrote:

i recently thought up the next sollution:

Just attach a bayonet on there and let it be a spear + handgun. (like napoleon times) for the same cost

handgun for 25 gc (compared to xbow) you trade shooting every turn for a extra -1 as.
and you get a spear for 10 gc when you are being charged. which most likely happens.

Oh-ho! Now there is a new one! I quite like that idea.

I don't think there is any problem with the handgun rules. They're expensive and not worth it unles you're facing heavily armored opponents. Opponents who won't be heavily armored until they get the crowns to do so...About the same time you'll have the crowns to buy hanguns. They are toys for experienced warbands and a novely for new warbands.

But I might just be reasoning for a way not to use house rules. My group tried not to change many of the rules in an attempt to keep the game as balanced as possible. The only house rull we ever made and kept was to outlaw Dwarf Treasurhunters. Experienced dwarves are almost impossible to deal with. Maybe suggesting they use handguns to start was an attempt to balance them? Probably not though.

How do you guys think about removing the halve range (-1 to hit) attribute for Black powder weapons.

Crossbow -> 30 inch (-1 after 15 inch)
Handgun -> 24 inch (no -1 to hit after 12 inch)

That way handgun's are easier to use long range. Not much changes between the 2 weapons.
Pistols and Dueling pistols can shoot 6 inch and 10 inch without penalties.
Hochland long rifle shoots 48 inch without penalties for to hit.

We think that this change might work, and are thinking about using them as a house rule.

I just think about to drop the quickshot rule fot crossbows, as mentioned before, and to ad the accuracy rule to handguns and hochland longrifle. The Hochland longrifle should be S5 additionally (because it is soo expensive). The costs should be 25gc for handguns and maybe 100 or 125gc for the Hochland longrifle

As consequence bows could fire two times with the skill, crossbows are still fine weapons, handguns fire half the time but are easier to use. and the Hochland longrifle would be an expensive but powerful weapon.

What do you think?


SerialMom

@Serial - it is almost the same, what we did in our group, where even our handguns have S5.
Removing Quick shot from Crossbows makes really sense to me. Not regarding fluff side of the problem (which is still important to me - how would you be able to shoot xbow as quickly as bow), 2 S4 shots (especially when combined with Nimble skill) makes xbows imo superior shooting weapon comparing price x efficiency.
Same as you, we also dared to touch prices, which (as I've learned here) most house-rulers try to avoid at any cost, and rather prefer to make up rules to fit a weapon/equipment's original price. According to my oppinion, to make thing well balanced it is necessary to adjust some prices.
So 25gc for handgun and 125gc for Hochland rifle is imo resonable.

@aldhick:I do not have problems to adjust weapon prices.

Additionally to the modifications above, what do you think to give an quickshooter -1 to hit ( like crossbow pistol). But maybe this point doesn't fit directly to the original topic.

SerialMoM

Quickshot should have a -1 to hit to bring it into line with other multi-shot weapons.

We just completed a campaign using the Khemri and Sartosa campaign settings. The three human pirate warbands all had only one or no crossbows but lots of handguns, long rifles, etc.

No complaints.

I am about to start a Reiklander warband, and I will be using Dueling Pistols on my Champions. My Captain, and Marksmen will have Crossbows, and my Young Bloods will start with just clubs.

I think it should work out pretty well as long as I don't draw the Man Eaters for the first round. I think anyone else I should be able to out shoot.