Skaven Hiring Henchmen Question

Hi,

Here's the deal. One tactic I have for Skaven is "Max out on heros, and get LOTS OF GIANT RATS"

But that brings up a problem... at the top of the skaven henchmen page (right next to "henchmen) it says, "bought in groups of 1-5"... which leads me to beleive that my starting warband can only have 5 Giant Rats (since it's a starting warband... with only one purchasing time)...

But then Giant rats have a skill: "Pack size: You can recruit as many giant rats as you wish."... which leads me to believe I can recruit 15 Giant rats for my starting warband...

Anyway... please tell me I can recruit 15 to start... lol

Note: this is the 1999 rulebook.. so I may be missing something.

Thanks for your help

Well i don't think that rule counts for Giants Rats.....if you look at the Rat Ogre he has a 0-1 to recruit (it's like a special rule) and i think same goes for the Giant Rats. the 1-5 rule counts for the Verminkin i think. and remember that the Models number in your warband can never exceed 20.

Cheers
Hellfoot

The rule for buying henchmen in groups of 1-5 is a general rule for buying and organizing your henchmen groups. The numbers for particular henchmen types (0-X) is relating to the total number of these models in your warband.

Take the Marksmen from the Mercenaries for example:
0-7 Marksmen
Bought in groups of 1-5 means that you can have one marksmen group of 3 models (maybe equipped with bows) and one with 4 models (maybe equipped with crossbows). Other possibilities are: 2/5, 2/2/2/1, 1/1/1/1/1/1/1, etc. It is not possible, however, to have one henchmen group contain 6 marksmen.

Again, the 1-5 group restriction is meant for your oganisation of the groups on your rooster. The 0-7 of the Marksmen relates to the total number of Marksmen in your warband. So you cannot buy another Marksman henchman when you have 2 Marksmen Heroes through Lad's got talent and only 5 Marksmen henchmen because that would exceed the total of 7.

Now on to your dirty rats: The Giant rats' pack size special rule is somewhat stupid. Of course you can buy as many Giant rats as want. This is also true for the Verminkin because none of the two types has a 0-X restriction. However, the pack size rule is a convenience rule which is only there because of their second special rule: Experience. As Giant rats do not gain experience it would make no sense to organise your 15 Giant rats in 3 different henchmen groups, which you were forced to do without the pack size rule due to the global rule of 1-5 groups. So the pack size rule only states that you can have one henchman group on your roster containing any number of Giant rats, not only up to 5 per group.

Note that you are still restricted to 20 models total in your warband. So with 6 starting heroes you can go with 14 Giant rats if you have the money.

I hope I expressed myself clearly and it did help you.

cianty wrote:

So the pack size rule only states that you can have one henchman group on your roster containing any number of Giant rats, not only up to 5 per group.

Hmmm... I undestand that differently. Let's see:

1) Pack size = You can buy as many giant rats as fit into your warband (max. 20 models). That means you can have 1 assassin and 19 rats.

2) Groups of 1-5 = In any one given henchmen group on your rooster, there can never be more than 5 models.

So I understand it as such that if indeed you buy 1 assassin and 19 giant rats, the rats would use up 4 henchmen group slots, because you cannot make ONE slot with 19 models.

e.g. Henchmen Groups on roster:

5 Giant rats
5 Giant rats
5 Giant rats
4 Giant rats
= 19 rats.

That leaves you 2 slots empty that you could use weren't it for the 20 model limitation.

If you were right, then the pack size rule had no effect. Because Giant rats, like Verminkin, are not restricted. Your given example works for Verminkin just like you wrote it down. For Giant rats, however, you can throw them all into one single Henchman group. What else would be the difference between having the pack size rule and having it not?

Yeah that's a good point... forget about my post people, Cianty is right.

Cianty are a pharaoh in my book.

And I'm very very happy that the rules turn out on my side =)

I'm totally starting my Skaven warband with 5 heros and 15 rats =) And then as the rats die off, I'll replace them with heros/henchmen.... Or I might do 14 rats just incase one does die... yea right.

Thanks again guys. This forum is the sweetest resource ever.

<3

Unless I'm terribly mistaken I'd say Skaven can start with 6 Heroes, can't they? Thought that was part of the Skaven brokeness.

Yes, you are correct. they can start with 6 heros... although the night runners pretty much are giant rats that you have to buy equipment for.

What do you mean "brokeness"? Are the skaven considerred to have an uper hand in the beginning stages?

I'd rather not start a discussion on that here, but be informed that many people find the Skaven a bit overpowered compared to all other warbands in the rulebook. This is due to having 20 models, 6 starting heroes, stats for these heroes that are way too good for the respective hiring costs of the models (compare 'em to mercenaries and you'll see what I mean). But there are also people you say you'll just have to know how to beat them and that's it's not impossible bla blah. Your group will find out for themselves how it works out in the end. I suppose if you start with 14 rats it should be possible to take 5 of them out of action and make you root.

A skaven warband full of slingers and these cheap heros who have better stats(exept for Leadership) than Humans but cost less is one of the best things you can do in Mordheim to make your opponent go mad at you

Few years ago one dude in our campaign had a super ultra mega Skaven Hero:
- Full experience.... *shudder*
- Movement of up to 21"!!! ((6 +1) through drugs X 3 skill + D6 jump skill)
- He could see through walls, obstacles, etc. through artefact
- He could move through walls, obstacles, etc. through artefact

What a monster. He appeared wherever he liked, took any model ooa and left again. Bad times it were for all of us...

Now that sounds like fun playing against that thing.
(Attention, I was kidding)

Now I'm glad I killed that skaven assassin in the last game

Thanks for the info guys. good points.
Good to know, and glad im skaven =)
jk

Wow, i didnt know skaven could be so strong. Since I always lost with them I always felt they were UNDERpowered... funny how impressions can change so radically from gamer group to gamer group

This is why Mordheim works better in short campaigns with a fixed time-limit: By re-starting a campaign before anyone gets over-powered or bored!

WarbossKurgan wrote:

This is why Mordheim works better in short campaigns with a fixed time-limit: By re-starting a campaign before anyone gets over-powered or bored!

I disagree, If you have a wide enough variety of warbands, all of them will increase together, and be close to the same awesomeness. (although that artifact is ridiculously cheap...)

I haven't played them in a while, but as I remember Skaven have a tough time against Chaos (and undead?).

w/e... either way, it's a blast playing.