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 "Retaliate"?

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SomeOrc
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PostSubject: "Retaliate"?   Thu 6 Nov 2008 - 4:30

Hello,

inspired by http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/rules-and-gameplay-f1/alternate-turn-system-for-mordheim-t442.htm , I remembered a quite heated discussion during our first Mordheim games.

Does "retaliation" exist in Mordheim?

The way we play out HTH combat involving more than two models is straightforward, seems to follow the (original) rules, and "retaliating" is not involved: every model simply attacks whatever other model it is in close combat with, per the usual order (spears (1st round) => chargers => initiative => random). We do not in any way "retaliate".

We looked through the (German) rule book, both PDF and paper, and could not find any mention at all of rules concerning "retaliation", for example, stating that a model has to strike back at the model it was hit by before, etc.

Have we got it right? Did we miss something?
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WarbossKurgan
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PostSubject: Re: "Retaliate"?   Thu 6 Nov 2008 - 4:45

The player is free to put attacks on any model in base contact, you don't have to hit someone who just hit you if there is another, slower, model that is about to hit you.

For example.

An Orc with club is fighting a Human with Great Sword. The Orc is charged by a second human, armed with an axe. The Axeman hits with his attack but fails to wound, the Orc doesn't have to hit the axeman back. The Orc hits the Greatsword Human and takes him Out of Action, preventing his almost certain death if the Greatsword hit him.

study
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Eliazar
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PostSubject: Re: "Retaliate"?   Thu 6 Nov 2008 - 4:53

I think by "retaliation" the author of the alternative rules simply meant the attack(s) you get during your opponents turn.

As I see it, the issue was simply that while it's clear how often you strike back during your opponent's cc phase with the normal system (once), it might get a little confusing using the active/inactive warrior system.
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: "Retaliate"?   Thu 6 Nov 2008 - 5:04

What WarbossKurgan said.

Models simply divide their attacks whatever way they wish against enemies in base-to-base contact. One attack against the one enemy, two against the other - or all three against one enemy and ignoring the other. Like that.

SomeOrc wrote:
(spears (1st round) => chargers => initiative => random). We do not in any way "retaliate".

This is wrong. A model with a spear strikes first in the first turn of close combar. A charger also strikes first. These "strike first" abilites are equal they both strike first. Since only one model can strike at a time, process the first-striking models in Initiative order as if they were in their second round of close combar. This was changed in an official erratum to avoid confusion about the interaction of chargers (with spears??!), spears, special skills, etc.

Example:
A skaven charges a dwarf, who wields a spear. The skaven will strike first because his Initiative is higher than the dwarf's initiative. If the dwarf attacked a skaven with a spear, then the skaven would be allowed to strike first because he has a spear and a higher initative. If the charger and the spear-wielding defender have the same Initative, the order is determined at random.

Yes, Spears on models with a low Initative are worthless now. Charger also do not benefit from having a spear of their own.

So the order is now this:

first strikers => initiative => random

You see, this is way simpler. It doesn't matter whether a model is allowed to 'strike first' because it charged, wears a spear or has a special rule allowed it to strike first.

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SomeOrc
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PostSubject: Re: "Retaliate"?   Thu 6 Nov 2008 - 5:25

Thanks for the clarification, cianty. I was neither aware of that erratum, nor of the fact that models with several attacks can divide them between enemies.
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: "Retaliate"?   Thu 6 Nov 2008 - 9:43

SomeOrc wrote:
Thanks for the clarification, cianty. I was neither aware of that erratum, nor of the fact that models with several attacks can divide them between enemies.

Glad to help! Smile

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PostSubject: Re: "Retaliate"?   Today at 21:59

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