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 Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor

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maxxev
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PostSubject: Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor   Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor Icon_minitimeSun 1 Sep 2019 - 16:36

Anyone in the know about why the Black Dwarves bull centaur is a large target and the Centigor isn't?

Seems a bit harsh when statistically they are pretty much identical.

Also while i'm asking, the Centigor has no access to spears yet I have seen lists with spears on him, is that an oversight or was there an errata do you know?
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PostSubject: Re: Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor   Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor Icon_minitimeSun 1 Sep 2019 - 21:09

You could PM cianty for an answer. Otherwise no idea. Neither should be as they are not a mounted model...

People often give their warriors weapons they are not allowed and publish their lists. That warband was a published mess since it was published right when the TC editor died. Nothing showed up in the erratas published to correct the original.

Perhaps they took the skill to give him spear (though its not as useful in Mordheim since he doesn't count as a mounted warrior...)
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PostSubject: Re: Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor   Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor Icon_minitimeSat 7 Sep 2019 - 8:17

I think people are willing to be generous on what weapons are 'allowed', & since almost all the Centigor models have spears it makes some sense to allow them to take spears in Mordheim.

If I were to guess why the Bull Centaur would count as a large target -- it's the size of a mounted warrior, so it makes sense, more than the Centigor not counting as large.
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PostSubject: Re: Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor   Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor Icon_minitimeSat 7 Sep 2019 - 8:37

Rhydderch wrote:
I think people are willing to be generous on what weapons are 'allowed', & since almost all the Centigor models have spears it makes some sense to allow them to take spears in Mordheim.

If I were to guess why the Bull Centaur would count as a large target -- it's the size of a mounted warrior, so it makes sense, more than the Centigor not counting as large.

While that does make sense, I think from a warband rating perspective it's harsh as both are statistically very similar to a possesed model just a little faster, so as large creature they artificially inflate the warband significantly for little value, and as they are both heroes you have to sacrifice income if you decide not to take them. It just would seem to harm the warbands overall, I wonder if that is why the centigor didn't get the rule, but then the Bullcentaur and black dwarves are screwed lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor   Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor Icon_minitimeWed 18 Sep 2019 - 5:31

I haven't seen the centigor model, but RAW any model that is 2" or more in height or width counts as a large target, regardless of whether or not it has the Large Target rule.
LRB, p15, Hit Modifiers wrote:
+1 Large target
If either the target model has the Large Target special rule (such as an Ogre), or whose main ‘body’ is over 2" tall or wide (such as most buildings).
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PostSubject: Re: Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor   Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor Icon_minitimeWed 18 Sep 2019 - 8:40

Lord 0 wrote:
I haven't seen the centigor model, but RAW any model that is 2" or more in height or width counts as a large target, regardless of whether or not it has the Large Target rule.
LRB, p15, Hit Modifiers wrote:
+1 Large target
If either the target model has the Large Target special rule (such as an Ogre), or whose main ‘body’ is over 2" tall or wide (such as most buildings).

So the possesed warband has 2 large heroes? Damn that makes their warband rating massive!
That is something I didn't know
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PostSubject: Re: Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor   Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor Icon_minitimeWed 18 Sep 2019 - 8:47

Lord 0 wrote:
I haven't seen the centigor model, but RAW any model that is 2" or more in height or width counts as a large target, regardless of whether or not it has the Large Target rule.
LRB, p15, Hit Modifiers wrote:
+1 Large target
If either the target model has the Large Target special rule (such as an Ogre), or whose main ‘body’ is over 2" tall or wide (such as most buildings).

I don't actually own any centigor miniatures either but they actually look pretty squat, they aren't based off horses, there body part is really very short compared to a horse and their torsos are actually squat too... if anything they don't look any TALLER than a beastman chieftain

Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor Gwchsbstmanbestigor1

Also i'm conflicted because of this statement in the empire in flames errata

“Large Target: All models mounted on a riding creature from this section count as Large Targets as defined in the shooting rules. Un-ridden riding creatures are not Large Targets.”
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PostSubject: Re: Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor   Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor Icon_minitimeThu 19 Sep 2019 - 4:58

maxxev wrote:
So the possessed warband has 2 large heroes? Damn that makes their warband rating massive!
That is something I didn't know

The rule does say "main body" though, so I think you could argue for a Possessed that means it doesn't include their arms or legs and therefore don't count as Large Targets. That would also match up with them not being specifically listed as such, and since they are one of the base warbands I think we can be sure if they intended them to be large they would have changed that when they released the LRB, if not before.

That being said, in my group we made a house-rule that Possessed 500 gold or over counted as Large targets even if they weren't. Almost never had to invoke the rule - it is tricky to make a Possessed that is 500+ gold with all their mutations modeled on and have its main body still be less than 2" in all directions.
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PostSubject: Re: Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor   Query - Black dwarves Bull centaur vs Centigor Icon_minitimeSat 21 Dec 2019 - 1:09

Has anyone seen the Forgeworld bull centaurs. They are mahoosive! Very Happy
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