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Admin Tom
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PostSubject: US Elections D-Day   Tue 4 Nov 2008 - 4:32

Hey guys!

As you know, today the U.S.A are voting for their new president.

I was wondering what your feeling is in regard to the outcome. I read that the participation rate is expected to be 68% which is pretty good.

In Europe there is almost a unanimous feeling that Barack Obama should win (80% of Europeans approx.).

I was wondering if our North American fellow forumites might want to give some of their personal impressions on Obama, McCain & Co. I think that would be very interesting for the lot of us "stuck" on the other continent.


--Admin Tom

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PostSubject: All Right   Tue 4 Nov 2008 - 7:05

Here's my (hopefully) semi balanced look things today
#1 I'm tired of all the campaign coverage...
(It's been 2 years now)
#2 there is not a lot of difference on the candidates stance on the issues
(there are only 5% of issues that the candidates disagree on, abortion, healthcare etc.)
#3 electing either candidate will be a defining moment in US history
(we will either have an African American president or a female Vice President)
#4 It's really cool to see so many people actually caring about the election
(the line for the polling place was a mile long when it opened)

My synopsis is that either you have to vote on the issues or you have to vote on personality
(Their plans to implement their ideas almost never make it through congress due to way too much partisanship)
If you go on the issues Obama seems to have the edge
If you go on personality Obama definitely has the edge

My biggest frustration with this election is that it's been 2 years since this race started and I still have been unable to find an unbiased synopsis of their views on the issues.

No one has illustrated personally why it's important to them, and the entire campaign coverage has focused on political integrity much more than political positions.

In short it's still a toss up
25% of americans vote on Name recognition alone!!!1
so whoever sounds better could win.
The pundits are definitely leaning towards Obama
We'll find out tomorrow.
And I'm sure there will be some controversy one way or the other

I'll just be happy it's over with
I decided 6 months ago who I would vote for.
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PostSubject: My personal Favorites   Tue 4 Nov 2008 - 7:16

My personal favorite falsehoods of this campaign
That Obama is a Muslim
(or Muslin depending on which sign you believe)
That Sarah Palin violated Ethic laws in the firing of her brother in law
(NY Times article this morning found that the original report was unfounded and incomplete)
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Tue 4 Nov 2008 - 7:18

Trust me on this, you REALLY don't want to hear my political views.Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Tue 4 Nov 2008 - 7:37

Think of all the good things you could have done with the money spent on electoral campaigns...
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Tue 4 Nov 2008 - 9:53

I'm back from voting; YES! I'm not going to get into who I voted for, or that I'm availing myself of a priviledge that my forebears suffered to obtain for moi. I vote because if I don't I CAN'T complain about my government; AND I like to complain.Suspect

"There is no native American criminal class, except, of course, for Congress."
Mark Twain
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Tue 4 Nov 2008 - 10:13

Thanks for writing your thoughts guys.

I wonder who Joe the plumber will vote for.

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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Tue 4 Nov 2008 - 11:21

Admin Tom wrote:
Thanks for writing your thoughts guys.

I wonder who Joe the plumber will vote for.

Ross Perot
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Tue 4 Nov 2008 - 14:01

I'm sick and tired of the 2 party system and of politics in general. People doing anything they can to get elected. So I've given my vote to the green party. There's someone who stands up for her beliefs! And vote no on 8!
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Tue 4 Nov 2008 - 14:41

I suppose I'd have given my vote to the Green Party as well...

Anyway, what's 8?
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Tue 4 Nov 2008 - 15:39

This is a very intersting process.

This are just my personal thoughts as Tom asked for them , I would hope no body tries to start a major discussion on them as I am talking out loud to Tom as if he was sitting next to me.

Obama.......someone younger but really does not have the experience needed but I do like Biden as VP as he does have the experience. Ideally Biden should be going for President and Obama VP.



McCain....hard as nails and will challenge anyone....but too old for the job. He is qualified but maybe a bit old...Palin as VP......I have no idea why....He should have chosen Huckebee (spellling).

I am a Republican by nature but I would have loved to see John Edwards and Biden run for the Democratic Pary.

As for the Republicans....I don't see too many other choices. Trust me, I wish there were.

I would be hard pressed to see many things change as to USA's personality on matters. I don't care who is president. Things have changed since 9/11, since Spain's subway bombings and London's bombs. India, Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan have them regularly.

Things overall will not change as certain must happen. The days of sitting back and letting stuff happen stopped 7 years ago. Many countries are skirting the issues to keep the population happy.

Even if Obama wins WE WILL NOT pull out of Iraq. It won't happen as the current agreement they are working on goes to 2011 and Obama will not go..."You know what, screw that I am pulling everyone out Jan 1st" If anyone believes that I have a bridge to sell you.

Any US president will authorize force. Bill Clinton sent missiles into Afghanistan during his tenure, and Iraq. President Clinton was the leading force for the Bosnia Serb conflict when ever other nation turned their back on the issue.

If anyone really believes this will change then I believe you will be surprised.

Again, this is to Tom and I don't need or care of any rebuttials on what I said. If Tom wants to say something back then I can live with that as this is really me talking to him but on a forum. LOL.
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Tue 4 Nov 2008 - 15:54

Hi Guys.

I must say, I am very proud of this little online group we have here. I've become very disheartened by the shameless idiots on the internet and walking our streets, but us Mordheimer's rule.

I'm a "principle" kind of guy. I choose something not because it's good for today, but because it aligns with the principles of the constitution, and this country. Things like personal freedom, government is not meant to run your life.

Anyway, I thought I'd just quote some things I agree with from above:

Pjschard wrote:
#2 there is not a lot of difference on the candidates stance on the issues

Ash wrote:
I'm sick and tired of the 2 party system

Da Bank wrote:
Even if Obama wins WE WILL NOT pull out of Iraq.

Honestly, this is the first election that I have really done a lot of personal studying. I support the troops, and after 9/11, the war... but as I look around, things like fiscal responsibility and personal freedom is being destroyed in the name of war/peace.

I've been in a ranting mood the last couple months, and based on the above comments and reactions, it's very nice to have a "grown-up" group here.

I do have one small question: (side note: I'm not voting for either of the two major candidates) If you are an Obama supporter, can you tell me why you believe in his change when he has such a short voting record?

I don't mean that as an insult, honestly. I just haven't been able to speak with any obama supporters (or mccain for that matter) and don't have an answer to that question.

Thanks for hearing me out.
<3

Edit... forgot to make a prediction: As I already predicted: If I had to make a prediction, Id have to say Obama takes the crown, and within a year hell have broken half of his promises. At the end of his 4 years well still be in Iraq. Lets see ...


Last edited by Ashton on Tue 4 Nov 2008 - 20:24; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : forgot to make a predictino)
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Tue 4 Nov 2008 - 23:31

Obama has won Smile
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Tue 4 Nov 2008 - 23:59

Even though I have been opposed to the wars in te first place, and still think so, I'd say it is wrong to say "Oh, by 2011, we'll pull out of Iraq", as after occupying the country, the USA have some kind of responsibility to leave in in some state of order. If they'd just say "Well, here you go with your democratic government, bye bye", some radical factions will soon take over again and then you have the same unfree and undemocratic system with a a few thousand people and a lot of cultural heritage less than before.
And what good is it, from a pacifist or anti-war perspective, to pull out of Iraq to send the troops back to Afganistan?

I honestly can't understand the European euphoria for Obama. He will not be adressing the things lots Europeans consider not quite right (death penalty, weapons...), at least not this term, and he depends on lobby groups as well. He might be better, or not, but it's not as if he's the beacon of humand and democratic values whereas McCain is the old Cold War devil.

Anyway, I still don't know what's meant with 8?

Ash wrote:
And vote no on 8!
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Wed 5 Nov 2008 - 1:59

Eliazar wrote:

Anyway, I still don't know what's meant with 8?

Proposition 8 is an initiative to change the "California Constitution". If passed, the proposition would eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry in California. A new section would be added stating "only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."

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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Wed 5 Nov 2008 - 2:13

Ah thanks! Now that's what I call progressive. And they have Arnold as governour, too.
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Wed 5 Nov 2008 - 5:08

End of Election speeches.

Barack Obama
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/us_elections_2008/7710079.stm

John McCain
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/us_elections_2008/7710025.stm

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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Wed 5 Nov 2008 - 6:56

Congradulations to Barack.

As I said last night on WoW:

Barack Obama has earned the [First Black President] ahcievement!

So, my fellow Mordheimers (especially you American warbands), are we happy or no?
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Wed 5 Nov 2008 - 7:07

Ethlorien wrote:

So, my fellow Mordheimers (especially you American warbands), are we happy or no?
Ask me after his first 100 days Smile
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Wed 5 Nov 2008 - 9:29

Now that the first part of this discussion is over, I'd like to ask who the non-Americans on this forum "wanted" and why. I think everyone here has enough manners to take each person's opinions as opinions and not to hold it against them.

Thanks,
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Wed 5 Nov 2008 - 9:38

I think I would have chosen Obama, its time for some change after a long period of Republicans.. maybe it will get beter, maybe worse, we will see what he can change..
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Wed 5 Nov 2008 - 9:58

As I have stated above, I can't really decide... don't know whose foreign policy would be worse.
But I have read somewhere that Obama wants to make some changes with the health care, and I think that might be a good thing for the Americans, as I read as well somewhere that there are missions like you find in Subsaharan Africa where dentists treat people without private insurance for free...
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Wed 5 Nov 2008 - 10:05

Since you mentioned health care, Eliazar, do you have have "socialized health care" where you are? Or is it free market?
How is it in your opinion? Is it expensive? Does it take forever?
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Wed 5 Nov 2008 - 10:22

We have "socialized health care" and it's quite alright. The insurance companies are still some evil little entrepreneurs and try to get maximum profit, but it's better than nothing.
There is a difference between public and private insurance, though, with the latter being for civil servants of all kinds and business (wo)men and doctors and the like, which allow you to get better products for "free", whereas with the public insurance, you only get the cheapest.
However, everyone is taken care of and noone has to take up a loan to go to hospital or such like.
And the most expensive part of the health care system are the insurance companies, as there are LOTS of them and they are all well equipped with staff.
On taking forever... it depends on where you live. THere is a general shortage of doctors, especially when it comes to hospitals. Here in my town in the East, there are some problems with specialized doctors (like surgeons or oculists)... hm, with the rest as well, I think... let's say there is a general shortage of doctors, at least in the East, as they have to work a lot (especially in the hospitals), and are sometimes not very well paid. Some only take patients with a private insurance, as this gets them more money (because these patients can take the more expensive products without having to pay extra)... and there is the fun thing of a limit up to which the insurance companies pay the doctors, if they work more, they don't get any money for it... this leads to some doctors closing at the end of each month in order to avoid working for free, and increases the shortage as well.

Hm, I think that's it in general. I'm not really an expert on that issue, perhaps someone else has something to add.
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PostSubject: Re: US Elections D-Day   Wed 5 Nov 2008 - 10:55

Thanks for the response. It's a shame how new in the US is only about the US and there is basically no international news... pathetic really. I am very interested in what you guys think as I try to keep an open mind about me.

On principle, I'm a free market kind of guy. I've been told socialized health care is "bad" but honestly don't know much about it. The "everyone get's taken care of" is awesome. That's for sure. I've got some crazy friends up here who are very active/outdoor adventurer types... and they can't go to the hospital when they break anything... I don't know if they want to, but they definitely can't pay for anything.

I wasn't around "long ago" so I can't speak from experience, but I've heard Dr. Ron Paul speak about how hospital trips (and college for that matter) wasn't anywhere close to as expensive before the government stuck their nose into it. Back when the little man had a chance. But there's very few people who speak about what is the cause of the problems we face... most only speak of band-aiding our problems... and I definitely can't see America regressing even if it is the "best" thing to do.

Again, please feel free to share your thoughts. I'm very interested. =)

<3
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