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cornishlee
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PostSubject: Kislev bear base   Fri 23 Nov 2018 - 8:21

Can anyone tell me what size base this normally is? I was assuming a 40mm standard but I've just seen some pictures online (I've never seen one in person) that suggest they're actually on a 20mm base, the same as the humans.

I'm asking because I was looking at an alternative figure but there's no way it would fit on the tiny base.
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Fri 23 Nov 2018 - 10:59

Mordheim base sizes are not prescribed, so stick your bear on a base that fits the model. Gamey players might stick their figures on the smallest base possible, but Ive never had much of a problem having bigger than necessary ones myself.
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Fri 23 Nov 2018 - 11:07

FWIW, based on the Mordheim Kislevite promo pictures, Im guessing that the bear came with a 25mm base.
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Fri 23 Nov 2018 - 13:11

On this old scan, it looks like 20mm for the painted tamer and 25mm for the painted bear. With the unpainted versions, it actually looks the other way around... I'd probably go with 25mm for the bear as well.
http://www.solegends.com/citcat2004us/c2004usp1000-02.htm
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Fri 23 Nov 2018 - 13:27

Thanks for the advice and the link. I think that advert's a classic case of GW making some things look bigger than they are. The base really does seem to be the same 20mm as all of the humans.





I think I was just worried about balance issues (as if there could be such a thing in Mordheim). My first thought was that there must have been a reason for having it on a small base when comparable units (ogre, rat ogre, troll, minotaur) were all on 40mm bases.

My plan is to base all my humans on 25mm round bases so I was thinking about trying to squeeze this fella onto a 50mm round base:


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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Sat 24 Nov 2018 - 5:36

There are both advantages and disadvantages to bigger bases. More disadvantages I'd say, so your opponents shouldn't mind. And the original MH-bear is one of the ugliest models around imo, no wonder you'd want to replace it (even if i wasn't that hard to come by these days).
btw nice warband in the pics above.
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Sat 24 Nov 2018 - 7:32

It is a fantastic paint job, isn't it? Only one I found while searching for images though. Looks like we can agree on that and on what an ugly, expensive mini the GW bear is!
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Sun 25 Nov 2018 - 11:22

The bear does not have the Large Target rule, so there is no need to match Trolls or Ogres. All my bears got put on 40mm bases at one point, so that's what I use now, but the first bear I bought from GW came on a 25mm.
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Mon 26 Nov 2018 - 1:54

Von Kurst wrote:
The bear does not have the Large Target rule.

This is one of the things I was thinking about, regards balance. I guess I really didn't make that clear. According to the rules, any model more than 2" in height or width is a large target. I'm pretty certain the mini I'm looking at is that (for reference, the base it's pictured on is 100mm, which is why I said I was thinking about trying to squeeze it on a 50mm round base).
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Mon 26 Nov 2018 - 16:51

If you are attempting to balance using a larger model than GW had available when it released the warband for your bear, simply putting it on a larger base puts it at a disadvantage as more models on smaller bases will be able to attack it.

Since the rule for large target given in the shooting section uses houses and such as an example when describing the 2"+ models, we do not penalize those who use larger models for what would have been smaller GW models, but did not have the large special rule (for example, large possessed models). However if your group does, they are certainly free to do so.
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Tue 27 Nov 2018 - 4:06

I think I'd be most concerned about how difficult it'll be to use such a large bear in the confines of Mordheim -- if that's a 100mm base, it must be about 80mm to the tops of its ears, or three times the size of a human! In the circumstances, I wouldn't try to tame it so much as just offer it gifts of meat & make it my god...
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Tue 27 Nov 2018 - 4:34

Rhydderch wrote:
I wouldn't try to tame it so much as just offer it gifts of meat & make it my god...

And so began the proud nation of Kislev.

I think you're right though, it may be time to try and find another, more size consistent, alternative mini.

Edit: Then again, maybe it could be argued.

Ugh. Why am I trying to talk myself into this and why is it so hard to find a decent bear mini that isn't sculpted for dwarves to ride on (I have no idea where that comes from).

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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Tue 27 Nov 2018 - 8:37

The problem I see with your 100mm-bear is also that it doesn't really represent the stats. While I don't remember them exactly, I think they weren't THAT impressive. Here are some bears I found on a quick search, not in order of my personal preference:
http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/bear/price/02878
http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/bear/price/77494
http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/bear/price/14452
https://otherworldminiatures.co.uk/shop/wilderness-encounters-2/we24a-black-bear/
https://otherworldminiatures.co.uk/shop/wilderness-encounters-2/we7e-werebear/
https://shop.battlefield-berlin.de/katalog/artikelinfo/37549/malesur-adepts-bear-_1
https://shop.battlefield-berlin.de/katalog/artikelinfo/23464/bear
https://shop.battlefield-berlin.de/katalog/artikelinfo/53868/bear-rearing-to-attack
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Wed 28 Nov 2018 - 3:49

Thanks, the Reaper ones I hadn't found before. The second one in the list (https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/bear/price/77494) they do seem to sell in the UK, There's no indication of scale though. At the price, I'm assuming it's either very low quality (difficult to tell from the blurry photo) or very small. Does anyone know? I've got no experience of reaper at all.

I was beginning to edge towards this one as a second choice, last night: https://arcanesceneryandmodels.co.uk/shop/cave-bear-attacking-deezee-miniatures-dz12-28mm-wargames/. It's not a fantastic sculpt but it's better than most of the others (who knew bears would be so hard to sculpt). Then I found this picture with another model for scale:

Looking at that scale I started to wonder how tall the bear would be if it was rearing on its back legs, like the first one I linked to, and decided it wouldn't be that different to the c.80mm guessed at here. That's when I went to find out more about the height of a rearing bear.
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Wed 28 Nov 2018 - 4:01

Since you asked about stats comparisons with the typical big units:

Bear:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 3 0 5 5 2 2 2 6

Troll:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 3 1 5 4 3 1 3 4

Rat Ogre:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 3 3 5 5 3 4 3 4

Ogre Bodyguard:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 3 2 4 4 3 3 2 7
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Wed 28 Nov 2018 - 10:57

I have one of the Reaper bears -- the third one (managed to get it second hand). It's c.50mm tall (on its hind legs), which is about troll sized.

The second one, which is regularly available in the UK, will probably be about the same size. It's so cheap because it's 'Bones', made from a cheap, durable plastic. You lose some sculpt definition, but not as much as you might expect -- & that should actually be alright on something as hairy as a bear. For the price, I'd try it.
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Wed 28 Nov 2018 - 11:43

I have several Reaper-Minis, only one is a Bones though (a small dragon). One thing I found is that, in my opinion, Reaperminis tend to look better in real life than on the net.
On that note, I purchased a bear model a few years ago when I was in Moldova. No idea who made it. It's got a pretty big mould line but it was only 21 Lei. 17 Lei equaled a back then. I'm still waiting for the time to use it Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Wed 28 Nov 2018 - 12:07

Grimscull wrote:
I have several Reaper-Minis, only one is a Bones though (a small dragon). One thing I found is that, in my opinion, Reaperminis tend to look better in real life than on the net.

I find that with a lot of miniatures. It might only be GW who have the resources to make a mini look its best in photos.
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Wed 28 Nov 2018 - 15:28

Thanks, I think I might be buying that Reaper bear, then.
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Wed 28 Nov 2018 - 16:53

I have the first Reaper bear. It would fit on the old 25x50 cavalry base, but I have it on a 40mm base because that's what I did with all the bears (they were counts as ogres for my Kislev Warhammer army.) None of the pictured bears is small. Reaper does make a smaller bear as part of their familiars series. It is too small.
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Thu 29 Nov 2018 - 0:44

Von Kurst wrote:
Reaper does make a smaller bear as part of their familiars series. It is too small.
I thought so. This is why I left him out of the link-collection Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Thu 29 Nov 2018 - 4:12

Von Kurst wrote:
I have the first Reaper bear. It would fit on the old 25x50 cavalry base, but I have it on a 40mm base because that's what I did with all the bears (they were counts as ogres for my Kislev Warhammer army.) None of the pictured bears is small. Reaper does make a smaller bear as part of their familiars series. It is too small.

In that case, if it's big bases anyway, I might go back to my original pick! That's absurdly cheap for a model that size though (the Reaper one).
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Fri 30 Nov 2018 - 9:19

Looking at it, I wouldn't try putting that giant bear on a 50mm base -- I think it's likely to spill over the sides & be too top-heavy to stay stable. & given it seems to be a 60 kit, I know I wouldn't want it falling over. Plus, I still say it's too massive a bear for skirmish gaming. As seen here:



With a model that size, you're likely to either aggravate opponents by fielding such a monster &/or look like a chowderhead when it dies in the second turn...

The Reaper bear could probably go on a 30mm base, if you're using round bases anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Kislev bear base   Wed 5 Dec 2018 - 0:58

Yeesh, yeah, OK, that's bigger than I realised! Well done on finding that photo.
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