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 Orc&Goblin Squig Experimental Patch:

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MagicJuggler
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PostSubject: Orc&Goblin Squig Experimental Patch:   Mon 5 Mar 2018 - 9:56

Squigs are a weird part of the Orc&Goblin Warband.

Instead of a normal move, they simply get to move 2d6 inches. If they contact an enemy unit, they are treated as having charged in the following close combat phase.

Aside from the random aspect of Squigs, this brings up some RAW oddities:
-RAW, nothing states they actually have to move in a straight line. In theory they could move 2d6" and end up in their starting position.
-They simply move 2d6", and contact. Thus there is no restriction on them actually "bumping" into hidden models, models around corners, etc.
-Where it gets weird is whether Squigs can be intercepted. RAW, the rulebook implies yes, since any move that brings a model into CC is a charge by definition. The army list says you only treat it as a charge if the random move subsequently brings the model into close combat.

IMO, Squigs are a weird unit and can use some tweaking due to the idiosyncracies of Random Movement.

Proposal: Up the cost of Squigs to 40-50 gc apiece, make them S5 A2 to bring them in line with their WHFB statlines. Make them Move 4, with the Leap Skill.

Suddenly they go from being a War Dog equivalent with wonky move exploitation to becoming more akin to a Dire Wolf analogue, raw speed subsituted for some obstacle-clearing capacity and damage.
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Rhydderch
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PostSubject: Re: Orc&Goblin Squig Experimental Patch:   Tue 6 Mar 2018 - 13:34

Random movement seems like too big a part of the squigs to cut out, to my reckoning. The random movement runs the risk of them jumping out of control range & going wild -- which is a big part of the fun & also why squigs are so cheap.

I'd agree that the movement rules are more by way of guidelines. They do need a lot of figuring out as you go -- the question of whether squigs needed to take fear tests when 'charging' a frightening enemy got me, & what would happen if they failed...

That said, the idiosyncrasies of their random movement is a big part of the fun. You have to take the intentions into account, & the weaknesses that stop them from being too overpowered, especially in the context of an orc warband. Giving orcs access to a WS4, S5, A2, I4 unit seems rather beardy, especially without the randomised movement & its chance of sending them wild.

Giving them an extra attack should be alright, maybe putting the price up to 25 gc, but I think they're best viewed as a cheap crazy beastie rather than anything genuinely useful. That's partly a matter of taste though.
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PostSubject: Re: Orc&Goblin Squig Experimental Patch:   Tue 6 Mar 2018 - 17:57

15 to 50 GC more than triples their cost, and makes their gc ratio more inline with WHFB, where a Squig costs about triple that of a Night Goblin, rather than costing about the same. It's more a "consistency" thing than anything else.

The movement could arguably be nerfed to 3 base if 4 is too much. A 6 + d6 charge has the same effective threat range as a 2d6. However, the movement floor is higher, even if randomness is more linear.

Move + Leaping would make the rules more streamlined however, and would provide a springboard(ha!) for future options, such as Squig Hoppers.
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Friedrich Hetzenauer
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PostSubject: Re: Orc&Goblin Squig Experimental Patch:   Tue 6 Mar 2018 - 20:44

I understand what you are trying to do and why. And I get it, but I don't like it. They no longer act like squigs in that situation. Things like this are part of the pain/joy of Mordheim. Clearly as they are there is room for confusion and abuse. Personally I solve it by remembering I'm playing goblins, not playing to win a game. But I'm from the days when WFB was a roleplaying game, and we always treated Mordheim like one too. So I don't expect that suggestion to work for most people.
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Orc&Goblin Squig Experimental Patch:   Wed 7 Mar 2018 - 14:33

When Mordheim was new and 5th edition Warhammer was current, we all played the squig rules in Mordheim the way 5th edition had them. As 5th edition changed to 6th, we made adjustments based on 6th edition Warhammer. Nowadays when no one remembers how the old Warhammer rules worked and agreeing on how squigs move seems beyond us, I just don't hire squigs...
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Friedrich Hetzenauer
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PostSubject: Re: Orc&Goblin Squig Experimental Patch:   Wed 7 Mar 2018 - 15:13

There is that. For WFB I play 3rd and 4th, so we've not run into that issue.
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Rhydderch
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PostSubject: Re: Orc&Goblin Squig Experimental Patch:   Thu 15 Mar 2018 - 4:37

I know I always play Mordheim as a narrative game, & I do try to play 'in character' -- Skaven can be as underhanded & unfair as you can manage, Dwarf Slayers must always attack no matter how bad an idea it is, & squigs are fairly random little beasties. To my mind, that's the great advantage of a warband-level skirmish game over mass battles. It's easier to give each model a character & story, & play into it.

Playing that way, rather than purely to win, also helps smooth over plenty of rules ambiguities -- 'what would the character do' becomes as important as picking apart the wording of the rules. & it makes me happier with the existing squig rules than otherwise.
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PostSubject: Re: Orc&Goblin Squig Experimental Patch:   Mon 19 Mar 2018 - 13:35

I completely agree with Rhydderch, I enjoy the narrative part of the game and really don't mind the randomness of the squigs. I think it adds to the character and uniqueness of the warband.
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