HomeFAQSearchRegisterUsergroupsBlogLog inGolden Tom 2014 Thread!

Share | 
 

 Hired Swords - which do you allow in your campaigns, and WHY

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
andersbang

avatar

Posts : 3
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2017-07-20

PostSubject: Hired Swords - which do you allow in your campaigns, and WHY   Thu 20 Jul 2017 - 4:59

Hi all

New poster here! Long kinda introduction to my first post, but bear with me please.

A handful of friends and I are gearing up to our first Mordheim campaign in 7-8 years or so. We're converting and painting, discussing builds, tactics etc etc and trying to agree on a few house rules before the fun starts. So, naturally, we're talking about which Warbands to allow, and which Hired Swords. We want a reasonable modest power level, so we want rules that's on par with the core rulebook. All of our warbands are, so far, core rulebook ones, apart from a Nuln Warband, but my Nuln friend has decided (for himself) to not use any of the crazy Nuln weapons. Orcs might be joining too, at some point.

So which Hired Swords to allow in the our campaign that kinda fits with the same standards as outlined above? We are not hardcore rule-book-only, but we want something comparable to it. I have seen the "official list" of Hired Swords, and I personally think that, for example, the Merchant and the Imperial Assassin seem way too powerful compared to the Hired Swords in the rule book. Likewise, last time we played, I used the Witch, which I think is also much too strong - the Witch model I'm gonna be converting up will be a Warlock in our games. On the other hand, I find the rules for the Duelist very fair, again compared to the rule book Hired Swords, but he is not on the "official list". I would like a bigger pool of Hired Swords to choose from, but many of the ones I've seen don't sit right with me.

So my questions are these

1) Which Hired Swords do you find comparable in power level and pricing to the ones in the rule book?

2) Which Hired Swords do you allow in your campaigns? Rule book only, "official list", Town Cryer ones, everything including fan made etc?

3) And why? Did you discuss it with your group beforehand?

Thanks in advance!

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Von Kurst
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster
avatar

Posts : 7458
Trading Reputation : 3
Join date : 2009-01-18

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords - which do you allow in your campaigns, and WHY   Thu 20 Jul 2017 - 11:51

There are a huge amount of hired swords you know.

This reminds me of a recent post on facebook.  I'm not sure we will do better here because of the decline of forums, but it is an interesting topic.

1)This is a difficult standard as the power level of the rule book HS varies quite a bit.  The Pit Fighter is so much better than the dwarf, the elf than the Halfling, etc.
As a rule the Lustrian HS cost WAY more than almost any other HS since the authors seemed to think the rulebook HS underpriced.  The Black Orc Overseer is another HS who is way overpriced.  The Merchant and Beggar are too cheap.

2)I do a list of HS available for the campaign based on the location of the campaign and the warbands involved.  The list usually starts with the rulebook HS although depending on where in the warhammer world we are, some of them (or most) might not be there.

An example of a Mordheim list would be the 'official HS' plus the Duelist, Bounty Hunter, Bard and Witch, the Dark Elf Assassin (for evil warbands), the Nemesis Crown list, the Clan Skyre Rat Ogre and a smattering of favorites from other settings that add choices for some warbands (like the Grave Digger for Undead and the Cursed Hillman for Beastmen).

3)Why?  Well a big part of why is mentioned above: do they fit? Do they add choices for warbands that have few 'official choices' available?  Are they just awful (either a waste of time or overpowered)?
I have lots to say about the Merchant, the Witch is really annoying if a player with more talent for games gets ahold of her (but she is easy to kill).  The Imperial Assassin has never caught on in our group (the prevailing opinion being that he is expensive and easy to kill).  Everyone has an ogre or a pit fighter.

Non-official HS we like:  The Arabian Thief, the Beggar, Dark Elf Assassin, the Witch, the Duelist, Bard and Bounty Hunter.  I don't allow the Beggar in Mordheim, but he shows up in Arabian campaigns.  Likewise the Thief is not always allowed in Mordheim, but shows up in urban campaigns as a matter of course.

About the Merchant--
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t6250-the-arabian-merchant-problem
Back to top Go down
View user profile
andersbang

avatar

Posts : 3
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2017-07-20

PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords - which do you allow in your campaigns, and WHY   Fri 21 Jul 2017 - 4:07

Hello Von Kurst., thanks for the answer Smile

I know there is a lot of Hired Swords - that's the reason why I need advice from wiser, more experienced  sages in the first place! And I know of the similar topic in the Mordheim facebook forum, as I'm the OP there as well, but I didn't really get what I was looking for (many people just posted their favorites, but no explanation why they allow them or about their deliberations on their power level (if any), so I thought I'd try here as well - and thanks for a thought out answer).

1) Yes, I agree that there isn't a baseline for the power level of the rulebook Hired Swords either - they vary, and that's fine, so I'm looking for Hired Swords that maybe fit into that power level bracket.

2) We want to do the same thing, making a list or pool of Hired Swords that fits our campaign. For example, I don't really like the idea of a Dark Elf Assassin in Mordheim, as 1) The rule book states that Elves are very rare in Mordheim, and 2) if there are a few Elves, I can't see what a Dark Elf is doing there, very far away from the coast.

3) I like your list of non-official Hired Swords, though I would probably argue against the Dark Elf Assassin and the Witch in our campaign. The Beggar is a big no-no from me too. How's the Bounty Hunter? At a glance I quite like the Cursed Hillman for, say, Undead (we don't have any Beastmen players). When you say gravedigger, do you mean graverobber? He seems fine, maybe even underpowered, as eqipment get really expensive? Any other ideas for Hired Swords suitable for evil warbands? We have both Undead and Possessed in our group and it would be good to give the Undead especially some more options.

The Witch Hunters are converting up an Ogre, and the Marienburgers are thinking about it, but it seems most of us are focusing on the Warlock right now (with both me, the Marienburgers and the Nuln mercenaries painting or converting some magical back up). The Witch Hunters have also made a Pit Fighter, and I'm thinking of a Warlock and a Pit Fighter for my Possessed (though a Duelist could also be a really cool  conversion opportunity)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Von Kurst
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster
avatar

Posts : 7458
Trading Reputation : 3
Join date : 2009-01-18

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords - which do you allow in your campaigns, and WHY   Fri 21 Jul 2017 - 10:50

You are welcome.

Grave robber here...
http://bordertownburning.ciantygames.com/pdf/17%20Soldiers%20of%20Fortune.pdf

Maybe it was changed to "digger" later? (or maybe I'm just senile) (No one has ever actually used it, mind.  I just have it on the list.)

The Dark Elf: long ago in the Citadel Journal there was an article titled Vampire Wars or something like that.  One of the featured battles was a four way fight between Dark Elves, High Elves, Talabecland and Undead.  The plot was a force of Dark Elf raiders encounter a High Elf scouting force as the Undead challenge the forces of the local Elector (with the elfs unaware of the humans and undead and the humans and undead unaware that the elf forces are nearby).  The elfs were taking advantage of the anarchy in the Empire caused by the war of the Three Emperors.  Each was seeking relics from the plentiful elven ruins in the Eastern provinces Empire (and settling ancient scores in the process.)

Mordhiem just happens to be set in the time of the Three Emporers...  Mordheim the city is conveniently located near several elven ruins (in relative terms like elven ruins are nearer Mordheim than Altdorf for example)... How much easier for 'rangers' and 'assassins' to move through the fractured human realms than armies?

And the Dark Elf just happens to provide a pricey (and therefore rare) fill for gaps in evil warbands.

We also allow the Slaver (which I tweaked a bit, since I couldn't make sense of the rules as written).

The Bounty Hunter...adds a well armed fighter with a purpose.  I have never collected a bounty, but it made for some tense games while he lasted.


Last edited by Von Kurst on Sat 22 Jul 2017 - 11:35; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Von Kurst
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster
avatar

Posts : 7458
Trading Reputation : 3
Join date : 2009-01-18

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords - which do you allow in your campaigns, and WHY   Sat 22 Jul 2017 - 11:19

Below is a copy and paste from the Watchtower post on this forum with my comments added.  The format is the name of the HS, where it appears and a rating. 1a is 'official' and goes from there.  I think 3 is experimental. [Edit:1c is experimental; 3 is draft, doh.] Some 1as are not 1as in my opinion and some experimental 3s [drafts] are pretty well written (and a good few are not).  

http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t816-reference-the-watchtower-mordheim-rules-index

Arabian Merchant TC22 1a----Too cheap.  Horrible special rules (Monkey's Paw and Lamp of the Djinn). "official" joke.
Bard TC13 1b-------------------Shows up occasionally in our campaigns (Mordheim, Satosa and EiF).  Definitely in the same power level as the rulebook.
Beast Hunter EIF/TC28 1a-----never used by our players but often included on lists for Mordheim and EiF
Beggar FO94 3------------------See other posts.  Not game breaking, but not a great rules idea either.
Big Game Hunter TC13/LUS 1b--No one has ever taken one.  Always on the Lustria campaign lists.     Never anywhere else.
Black Orc Overseer FO91/NC 1b--has been hired.  I would not hire him for a campaign, because he is too expensive.  But several players have tried him out. Meh.
Bone Goliath BTB 1c--------------no experience
Bounty Hunter TC13 1b----------I hire them all the time.  Mainly because of the equipment and special bounty rule, which scares people.
Cathayan Merchant BTB 1c------many of the same problems as Arabian Merchant, though the access to equipment is different.  The awful Monkey's Paw and Lamp of the Djinn are not included which is a plus.

Chameleon Skink TC12/LUS 1b---I hire him all the time when I play Lizards.  Mainly because he is the only Lizardman HS that appeared in TC.  Complete waste of gold. Under equipped/over priced.
Chaos Centaur BTB 1c-------------no experience
Clan Skryre rat Ogre TC25 1b-----he used to show up back when the model was first released.   Nowadays the skaven warbands are scared of his special rules.  Whimps.
Coachman BTB 1c--no experience
Crimashin Assassin FO97/REL 3--Kind of weak for an assassin, but I always hire him in Arabia to get an infiltrator. On the weak end of rulebook HS.
Cursed Hillman FO49 2--He is always on the list when we have Beasts.
Dark Elf Assassin TC12/LUS 1b--He serves in nearly every campaign setting we play.
Duelist TC13 1b--Woderful HS.  No idea why not official.

Dwarf Pathfinder FO91/NC 1b--I always hire one when I play halflings, because Gimli.
Dark Jester FO17 3--no experience (Not a HS?)
Dark Mage LOD6 2--no experience
Dwarf Slayer Pirate FO45 3--Generally shows up in Lustria or a pirate setting.  If allowed he gets a lot of use.
Dwarf Treasure Hunter FAN8 1a--Always include him in campaigns with Dwarf warbands.
Dwarf troll slayer MHR 1a--I only take him for fluff reasons.

Elf Mage FAN5 1a--He gets a bit of use when we include elf warbands.
Elf ranger MHR 1a-- Every good warbands favorite
Emissary of Chaos FO94 3--I include him in EiF campaigns.  Not broken. Fiddly though.
Estalian Diestro LOD2 2--no experience
Fallen Sister FO25 2--Not recommended. Mainly I just do not like the way this HS was written.  Someone who uses Lesser Magic and blessed weapons?  Tends to be way better than a Warlock really fast and not in a good way.

Freelancer MHR 1a--Not used much, but we always see him mounted if we see him.
Goblin Lantern Bearer FO89 3--Saw action in our Big Toof campaigns.  I tend to see these types as 'silly'.  
Grave Robber BTB 1c--on our list of choices because it adds a choice for Undead, never used
Gravesman LOD5 2--no idea
Halfling Knight FO94 3--no experience (cause I have a prejudice against 'silly')
Halfling scout MHR 1a---official, used all the time
Halfling thief FAN7 1a--no experience
Highwayman TC26/EIF 1a--Hard to use well, but very flavorful idea.  Always included in our EiF campaigns.
Hobgoblin Scout BTB 1c--no experience (I was surprised that he would not be hired by greenskins)
Holy Man FO97/REL 3--great way to include a generic cleric, although his special rules make him a difficult employee.  
Human Scout FO91/NC 1b--A 'why bother?' choice.  The Kirslev ranger is way better.  There is NO reason to hire this scout aside from a cheap bow shot. (OK, if you are looking for bland HS, this is it.)
Imperial Assassin TC6/MHA 1a--The Assassin shows up in many of our campaigns and is a popular choice with human warbands.  Rarely chosen by Undead or Possessed (perhaps because people don't read).
Imperial Tactican FO94 3--I also have a prejudice against this type of HS. I read the rules and decided not to bother with it.

Kislev Ranger FAN6 1a--I include her in Mordheim or EiF She has more special rules than a rulebook HS, but not much equipment.
Mule Skinner TC14/MHA/EIF 1b--I include this HS in EiF campaigns.  No one ever takes one.
Ninja BTB 1c--no experience
Ninja Gnoblar MIC 3-----------'silly' (I completely ignored this HS, but it will be included in Big Toof)
Nomad Scout  TC19/KHE 1b--I include these in every Arbian campaign because they are vital.  There is no reason to use this HS unless your campaign uses the Supply Source rules or unless you house rule some reason (see Human Scout).

Norse Shaman TC12/LUS/BTB 1b--Lustria and EiF campaigns that include Marauders or Norse warbands.  No one ever uses one.
Ogre bodyguard MHR 1a--everyone who can has one at one time or another
Ogre Slave Master FO89 3--Not fond of his rules.  Kind of fiddly.  Never used. Definitely a 'draft'.
Old Prospector FO91/NC 1b--Handy fellow to hire in EiF, Nemesis or Mordheim.
Pathfinder TC12/LUS 1b--I only allow him in Lustrian campaigns.  Everybody needs him there.
Pit fighter MHR 1a--official.  Everyone has one at one point if they can.

Pyromaniac BTB 1c--no experience
Roadwarden TC26/EIF 1a--We allow in any campaign set in the Empire.  Very useful warrior.
Runesmith Journeyman FO91/NC 1b--I tend to only include this HS in settings in the Old World and usually only if we have a Dwarf warband.
Shadow Warrior TC13/LUS 1b--Probably the most 'balanced' elf HS.  

Skink Hopper MIC 3--I have read the rules.  Still no idea what the HS is supposed to be--what is a skink hopper?
Snake Charmer TC19/KHE 1b--Always a choice when campaigning in Araby.  Rarely used because he is really an experience cow for enemy warbands who harvest the experience from the weak snakes.
Swashbuckler FO94 3--Wonderful HS.  Appears in all our pirate campaigns and in Araby
Swordsmith BTB 1c--no experience
Thief TC19/KHE 1b--The thief has a place in all of our campaigns.  His special rules are the big reason people like him (and the obvious reason to not use him as well.)  We have never seen him break a campaign as we are not as lucky as the folks who advocate stealing Opulent Coaches and such rare things (HOW DO THEY DO THAT with the rules as written?!!!)
Tilean Marksman TC6/MHA 1a--Everybody who can have one usually has one.
Tomb Robber TC19/KHE 1b--I allow the Tomb Robber in Lustria and Araby/Khemri.  However I don't allow the Tomb Robber AND both the Kislev Ranger or the Elf Ranger because that is too many HS with the +1/-1 ability in exploration in my view.
Warlock MHR 1a--Another favorite
Warrior Priest of Sigmar TC28 1b--Should be rated a 4. You need to write rules for him in order to use him, since the original author didn't bother.  Awful mess.  (I wrote rules.)
Witch TC13 1b--We allow her and always have since she was published.  Her special rules make her hard to use if her warband is outnumbered, and she dies easy.
Witch Hunter FO91/NC 1b--Great idea for a HS and done well.  The guy who wrote the Warrior Priest could have learned something from the guy who wrote this HS.
Wood Elf Hunter------------- Horrible HS!!!  The worst of the Elf HS.  There is a more balanced version in LOD.  

Notes:
~~~We have never campaigned in BTB because we have no far eastern terrain.  
~~~We do use the original Khemri website HS, too.  But only in Araby, etc type of campaigns.
~~~We also use the Sartosa HS in pirate and Arabian settings, because pirates.
~~~I occasionally add HS found in THE 300 PAGE RULEBOOK WITH NO NAME to the list, but no one has actually used any.  FYI many HS found in that monstrosity have different rules than equivalent HS from actual GW publications.

Other threads
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t6666-the-warrior-priest-of-sigmar-hired-sword

http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t5517-slaver-hired-sword


Last edited by Von Kurst on Sat 29 Jul 2017 - 13:04; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
bitxo
Captain
Captain
avatar

Posts : 76
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2016-02-09

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Dwarfs Dwarfs
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords - which do you allow in your campaigns, and WHY   Thu 27 Jul 2017 - 5:54

wow excelent short overviews. IMO, in my group we allow way too many unofficial hired swords that unbalance the game quite a lot. I'd only allow official hired swords (rulebook+annual+EiF), except merchant, because it really is broken as Von Kurst said. That's more than enough variety, and warbands with few or no hired sword choices are usually strong enough. But it really depends of personal preferences.

In my last two campaigns running Dwarfs and Marienburg Mercenaries, both with great sinergy with HS in the starting list thanks to their special rules, they performed too well since the beginning.

Since we usually play short or mid-short campaigns, hired swords make quite a difference, and I think they should be limited to 1 or 2 max. per warband. Maybe even limiting starting with one of them. We have never done it, tho.

There are some interesting HS reviews here:
http://mordheimth.blogspot.com.es/2014/06/hired-swords-part-one.html
http://mordheimth.blogspot.com.es/2014/07/hired-swords-part-two.html
http://mordheimth.blogspot.com.es/2015/03/hired-swords-part-three.html
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Grimscull
Etheral
Etheral
avatar

Posts : 1471
Trading Reputation : 2
Join date : 2010-11-22

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords - which do you allow in your campaigns, and WHY   Thu 27 Jul 2017 - 7:56

Thanks for taking your time Von Kurst, that's a useful overview from someone who has experience with (almost) all of them thumbsup
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Von Kurst
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster
avatar

Posts : 7458
Trading Reputation : 3
Join date : 2009-01-18

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords - which do you allow in your campaigns, and WHY   Thu 27 Jul 2017 - 10:08

bitxo & Grimscull @--you are both welcome.

We do 20-30 game campaigns with each warband using a range of HS depending on warband type and income. I am not a fan of the Blood Pact rules or the wacky income rules from the REALLY LARGE RULEBOOK WITH NO REAL NAME, as we use more than enough HS without them.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Athanatosz
General
General
avatar

Posts : 167
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2016-02-09
Age : 32
Location : Hungary

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marauders (BTB) Marauders (BTB)
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords - which do you allow in your campaigns, and WHY   Thu 27 Jul 2017 - 13:07

Is not Blood-pact and other options for hired swords and slaved warriors from Sword of the Empire which is an add on to the Mutiny of Marienburg campaign? I like the reworked HS availability from it.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Von Kurst
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster
avatar

Posts : 7458
Trading Reputation : 3
Join date : 2009-01-18

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords - which do you allow in your campaigns, and WHY   Fri 28 Jul 2017 - 11:53

Quote :
Is not Blood-pact and other options for hired swords and slaved warriors from Sword of the Empire which is an add on to the Mutiny of Marienburg campaign?
Yes.

Quote :
I like the reworked HS availability from it.
That's OK. Different experiences/different campaigns. Not useful to our campaign (or perhaps TOO useful). Your experiences may vary. Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile
andersbang

avatar

Posts : 3
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2017-07-20

PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords - which do you allow in your campaigns, and WHY   Mon 31 Jul 2017 - 3:42

Thanks for a comprehensive list, Von Kurst! Very helpful, I found a few more I think seems very fair. The list I've presented for my group, and it sounds like people are a-ok with it, is as follows

All the rulebook ones

Duelist
Bounty Hunter
Bard
Grave Robber
Cursed Hillman
Human Scout
Old Prospector
Witch Hunter
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Von Kurst
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster
avatar

Posts : 7458
Trading Reputation : 3
Join date : 2009-01-18

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords - which do you allow in your campaigns, and WHY   Mon 31 Jul 2017 - 17:05

Good list thumbsup thumbsup

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords - which do you allow in your campaigns, and WHY   

Back to top Go down
 
Hired Swords - which do you allow in your campaigns, and WHY
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Mordheim Hired Swords
» A collection of Hired Swords
» Cornelius' Hired Swords
» hired swords
» Best Hired Swords for Skaven

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Tom's Boring Mordheim Forum :: General Discussion :: Rules and Gameplay-
Jump to: