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 Charging an unseen model

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mitokun
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PostSubject: Charging an unseen model   Tue 27 Jun 2017 - 2:30

Hi,

I want to ask you if there was a rule update about the rule of charging an unseen model. Also I would like to hear your opinion on this (corebook's) rule.
If you made a houserule for this please feel free to explain it. :-)

Measuring distances while declaring charges seems to be legit if the opponent's model is unseen (see core rulebook).

My point is that I would like to avoid measuring distances while declaring charges. I am bad at guessing distances and avoiding measurement tools is way more fun. That fun is gone as soon as I charge an unseen model.

Checking the 4 inches does help me (=beginner) a lot. I would like to avoid it, but as an inexperienced player I also have no idea how far 4 inches is and thus I would like to check it in order to avoid making charges I am not allowed to do.

Also the rule of declaring a charge and in case the opponent is not within 4" OR the initiative test fails my model is still able to move, shoot or cast spells seems too good to be true.

The usual failed charge seems to have a different spirit. The model has to move in the direction of the opponent's model and is not able to shoot. In the few games I played I had a few failed charges (because of distance) and they turned out to be quite devastating for me.

Mito
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innsmouth
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PostSubject: Re: Charging an unseen model   Tue 27 Jun 2017 - 3:24

Honestly, I don`t get the problem. As I understand the rules, you always declare your charges first. Then come the necessary measurements, I tests etc. And if anything goes wrong, it`s a failed charge, with all consequences. This applies no matter if you charge unseen models, dive charge or simply misjudge the distance. Simple and straightforward, as it should be. Am I missing something?

And yes, a charge is a risky move, with potentially high rewards. Like in real life. Very Happy
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Thespian
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PostSubject: Re: Charging an unseen model   Tue 27 Jun 2017 - 12:17

We use a house rule that is adapted from Warhammer Fantasy Battle (8th ed, I think?):

1. You can measure all distances, all the time.
2. Charges are still worked out before all other movement.
3. Charging is M + the higher die of a 2D6 dice roll. In the case of models with M6 or greater, M+2D6 with both dice added together. Failed charges move their normal M score only in inches. Charging warriors with the Sprint skill double their M score +2D6 (choose highest or add together). Models with random movement do not change.
4. Other movement rules do not change (running still double M, etc.)

Using a Rabbit's Foot we only allow one of the charge dice to be re-rolled.

This way you can agree with your opponent what number you need to roll to successfully charge, and then choose whether to charge or not. The risk is still there, but the result you need is clear. No more arguing over milimeters of distance between models. We find this speeds up play.

On average charge distances are slightly shorter (with M5 getting clearly screwed by this rule and dwarves gaining a slight advantage).
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Charging an unseen model   Tue 27 Jun 2017 - 14:17

Mordheim Digital Rulebook Part I, Published by GW 2005, p. 10 wrote:

If your warrior wants to charge an enemy model within
4" that he canít see (eg, because it is behind a corner)
but has not been declared as hidden, he must pass an
Initiative test to detect it. If he fails the roll, your
model may not charge this turn, but may move his
normal distance, shoot and cast spells.

Not a rule that I have a problem with. †
@Innsmouth--But as you can see (or because your warrior can not see the enemy warrior who is out of sight), the warrior who wanted to charge does not fail his charge, he can do something else.
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bitxo
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PostSubject: Re: Charging an unseen model   Tue 4 Jul 2017 - 3:37

I don't think official rules regarding movement need to be houseruled, except maybe that one that doesn't allow to move and start climbing in the same turn (to make things faster), because that's Mordheim at its best, with all the randomness it makes it so fun. But I like how the M+dice roll for charges sounds, as @Thespian says. It would balance a quite a lot warbands with movement disparities (maybe without the added dice for M6 or higher, or just for 4 legged creatures). Sounds like something fun to try.
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mitokun
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PostSubject: Re: Charging an unseen model   Thu 6 Jul 2017 - 1:56

Thank you for the nice feedback! Smile

Do you allow diving charges even if the model to consider is not allowed to charge because of the rule about charging unseen models?

Example Situation (actually from our gaming group's last game):

A Skaven wants to do a diving charge.
The building has a height of 3.9 inches.
The Skaven cannot see the enemy model, because he is standing one inch away from the edge.
Thus the Skaven is not allowed to do the diving charge, because the enemy model is not within 4 inches. (Assume that's true even if you consider a sphere with 4 inch radius around the Skaven.)

I usually allow my opponent to do diving charges more freely, because I think diving charges are pretty cool. Cool

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innsmouth
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PostSubject: Re: Charging an unseen model   Thu 6 Jul 2017 - 3:53

[quote="Von Kurst"]
Mordheim Digital Rulebook Part I, Published by GW 2005, p. 10 wrote:
[size=13]

@Innsmouth--But as you can see (or because your warrior can not see the enemy warrior who is out of sight), the warrior who wanted to charge does not fail his charge, he can do something else.
OK, I looked it up, and you are right. Doesn`t really make sense to me. Charging around a corner without careful scouting should be a risky move. I would change that to a failed charge.
Quote :

Do you allow diving charges even if the model to consider is not allowed to charge because of the rule about charging unseen models?
I always figured that a model in an elevated position has a good view on anything that`s going on below him, thus allowing diving charges at currently unseen models. But, I admit, that`s only an excuse, because diving charges ARE cool. Smile
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