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mitokun
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PostSubject: Advice for reducing game time   Mon 16 Jan 2017 - 5:47

Hi,

I am asking for advice on reducing the time a game takes.

My friends and I usually need more time than we want to take for a single game.
Your Ideas may be at the cost of fairness as this is not our main concern.

Here are a few ideas:
- A third person places the terrain. (worked well)
- Use a chess clock with absolute time. (not tested yet)
- Agree with your opponent on playing fast. (did not work)

Mito
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Athanatosz
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PostSubject: Re: Advice for reducing game time   Mon 16 Jan 2017 - 6:47

we play online but here is some advice which can help:

- We use already built maps but any player has the right to move or place 3 map object if he wishes
- Learn the rules so you do not have to check them every other minute
- If random things happen or has to happen always the opposite player do it like decide what the random encounter will do.
- if you disagree in some rules (happens a lots of times) let the rule-suffering player decide (who is affected negatively) the outcome in the current game. after game you can discuss it
-
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Advice for reducing game time   Tue 17 Jan 2017 - 17:34

Mlto@How long do your games usually take?

What rules are you using? (Adding things like encounters, weather and special rules usually slow the game down, but I love the depth such things add.)

The irony for me is how fast Mordheim plays in the early games, but I just watched a few 'learning games' that took nearly 3 hours.  So I guess I can understand somewhat...

We usually get several games in an evening (3 hours) as long as everyone is familiar with the game.
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mitokun
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PostSubject: Re: Advice for reducing game time   Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 3:04

Von Kurst wrote:

Mlto@How long do your games usually take?

Including placing terrain+warbands, playing and exploration phase: 2-3 hours

Quote :

What rules are you using?

Core rulebook, nothing else yet.

Quote :

I just watched a few 'learning games' that took nearly 3 hours.

Yes, we are beginners. Everyone has played about 7 games.

Quote :

We usually get several games in an evening (3 hours) as long as everyone is familiar with the game.

One hour per game would be really great.
Getting closer to that was my main goal when I made this thread.
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PostSubject: Re: Advice for reducing game time   Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 6:08

For us, the "time-wasters" are: (1) heroes with lots of experience, injuries, equipment and skills and players forgetting what all these things do then having to consult the rulebooks (2) finding the right sections of the rules for post-battle sequences (3) slow players who like to carefully consider their moves (4) warbands with lots of individual henchmen groups with different equipment, experience and advances and models that don't necessarily represent them properly (5) setting up the tables (6) multiplayer games.

Some of these things are easier to fix than others e.g. (1) limit the amount of campaign games played or expect players to have useful notes to hand e.g. written on the back of their roster (2) create a post-battle booklet with copies of all the relevant sections (5) set up the tables at the start of the gaming session, randomly allocate a table to a set of players then move to one of the other tables for subsequent games (6) limit the amount of such games!

Ideas for the less easy ones to fix are (3) threaten them with a three minute eggtimer i.e. anything that's not happened in this time, does not happen (4) encourage people to field henchmen groups rather than individuals though lots of people don't like doing this as it reduces their Lad's got talent opportunities. However, it shouldn't be too much of a concern if everyone does it. Decide allowable exceptions before demanding WYSIWYG models.

It might help if you gave us your view on what parts or phases of the game are slowing your players down. If you can, we might be able to give more specific and useful advice.
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Advice for reducing game time   Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 11:00

I try to avoid multi-player games as much as possible (unless its a special event).  Even a simple three player game between beginning warbands can take a couple of hours or more.  Add some experience to the mix and the pace slows down.  Add more players and you can forget about finishing the game in three hours.

Add one guy who is glued to his cell and the game comes down to a lot of 'um, its your turn...'

Quote :
It might help if you gave us your view on what parts or phases of the game are slowing your players down. If you can, we might be able to give more specific and useful advice.

True.

I have found that speed of play is mostly up to the mix of players.  We have a couple of 'just tell me how to play' guys that really don't do much on their own even after years of playing.  Games involving them usually take a bit longer as one person has to come up with a strategy for them and his own warband.

Before the Age of Stuff, new players with a knowledge of Warhammer caught on faster than folks who had never played because some rules cross over.  Now it takes a bit more time to explain the base parameters because current GW games have shifted far from their beginnings.
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PostSubject: Re: Advice for reducing game time   Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 13:37

We play with some house rules that slow things a bit, but even with that games take us 1 to 3 hours at max including post game, depending of the scenario and size of the bands. I've never noticed much difference among rivals regarding how much time they expend on their turns, but it really is true over developed warbands make things much slower. Heroes with many wounds and ways to heal, high Ld, several spellcasters, plenty of equipment... some players seem to like their warbands become demigods, but I also think limiting campaigns lenght make things faster and more fun.

I really like multiplayer games, but it's true you will expend a whole morning/afternoon on them. Having your gaming table set up and ready to start saves you time, and reference printed tables are really useful if you are new to the game or play several wargames at the same time.
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PostSubject: Re: Advice for reducing game time   Thu 19 Jan 2017 - 4:48

What slows us down?
(I will keep Citizen Shade's numbering)

(1) Heros/Henchmen with different experience and equipment

For example in order to get TLGT I have 12 different models.
This resulted in differing developement and thus differing equipment.
Yes, I have lost track.
Positively I can say that we do not have a problem remembering the rules.


(3) Players carefully considering their moves

Combined with (1) it is hard to see what is a good move.


(7) We do not play very often

We do remember the rules, but playing is far from being intuitively.
Everytime we meet I take a look at my warband rooster and am surprised what a (nice) warband I play and what it learned/gained since the last game.


I guess that's it.
We do not have discussions about rules, because winning is not our main concern.
I think our "problem" is that people start thinking about Mordheim when the game evening starts and not a week before like other people that are more into the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Advice for reducing game time   Thu 19 Jan 2017 - 13:06

Quote :
I think our "problem" is that people start thinking about Mordheim when the game evening starts and not a week before like other people that are more into the game.

We have this problem. We have a couple of players that show up a bit late, then have to figure out their warband rating...

Then they complain about not getting to play as often.

What ya gonna do?

We play once a week, and have for fifteen years or so. Of course I'm the only original member of the group left, so the experience level varies.

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PostSubject: Re: Advice for reducing game time   Thu 19 Jan 2017 - 13:26

If you can't play more games and your group won't put identically equipped henchmen in groups or limit the amount of games you play in a campaign, there are a couple of (obvious?) things you might want to consider in future.

One, the warbands and models you field. Some warbands are simpler and easier than others because their henchmen can't have equipment or can't gain experience (e.g. Undead) or have no-brainer equipment choices (e.g. Flagellants). When it comes to models, I try to make them a little different looking even if they're the same miniature and type. So, I might have blond swordsman and ginger swordsman, identically equipped, in different henchmen groups. The name can be noted on your roster to make it easier to keep track of who's who and what their profile is.

Two, the roles of each of your warband members. You might even want to jot it down on your rosters. This can help with deployment, deciding moves etc.

By way of example, my Witch Hunters field war hounds as speed bumps/charge interceptors/sacrificial lambs/shields for my heroes and for occasional savaging of enemies foolish enough to get isolated in charge range. My witch hunters are there to offer some ranged support, mop up xp from enemies that others have knocked down/stunned. The captain's there to lead, so he needs to be kept out of harm's way whenever possible and the priest plus flagellants are there to clobber people up close and personal. Of course, no plan ever survives contact with the enemy, but at least you know what everyone's supposed to be doing to start with.
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PostSubject: Re: Advice for reducing game time   Sat 21 Jan 2017 - 4:37

I second what people have said here regarding writing out the special rules and making summary sheets. I still have the original cardboard ones. A few extra things we often do;

Let one player set up the board but the other player chooses which side to start one, no rolling off. This tends to lead to very balanced boards. Also helpful if someone is late.

Write or paint the name of the model on the edge of the base, helps avoid the irritating "which guy is that again" moment. Especially handy if you have 20 skaven and aren't playing WYSIWYG.

Use different coloured dice to speed up rolling in close combat. We use a white dice for the models primary weapon and a red one for the secondary one, usually the free dagger.

F.

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PostSubject: Re: Advice for reducing game time   Sat 21 Jan 2017 - 13:06

Quote :
Write or paint the name of the model on the edge of the base, helps avoid the irritating "which guy is that again" moment. Especially handy if you have 20 skaven and aren't playing WYSIWYG.

Use different coloured dice to speed up rolling in close combat. We use a white dice for the models primary weapon and a red one for the secondary one, usually the free dagger.

Great suggestions! Oh do I wish I played with a group who would follow them...
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PostSubject: Re: Advice for reducing game time   Mon 23 Jan 2017 - 6:10

Thanks a lot for your advice.  Smile
I will now summarize the ideas mentioned in this thread.

(1) Heroes/Henchmen with lots of equipment and skills
-> Make a sheet with the most needed rules.
-> Write names on your models.
-> Agree with your opponent on using larger henchmen groups

(2) Finding the section for the post-battle sequence
-> Write a summary

(3) Slow players carefully considering their moves
-> Agree with your opponent on playing faster
-> Use a timer (eggtimer, chessclock)

(4) WYSIWYG not used
-> Mark your models (colors, names, ...)
-> Encourage players to get closer to WYSIWYG

(5) Setting up the table
-> Let a third person place the terrain
-> Place the terrain before rolling the mission

(6) Multiplayer
-> You cannot prevent this from taking more time than a usual 1vs1 game.

(7) Huge warbands
-> Limit the length of the campaign

( 8 ) Unexperienced players
-> Write a sheet covering the most important rules
-> Make them show up early at game-night
-> Use easy to play warbands

(9) Houserules
-> Think about how easy a new rule is to play with
-> Houserules can erase core rules thus making the game simpler (e.g. no effect for clubs)
-> Think about avoiding to many houserules especially when there are unexperienced players around
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