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 RAW vs RAI - Side Effects of Autopassing Leadership Checks.

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MagicJuggler
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PostSubject: RAW vs RAI - Side Effects of Autopassing Leadership Checks.   Thu 30 Jun 2016 - 8:16

In the Warband sticky topic, I pointed out that based on RAW, Flagellants (as well as Possessed Darksouls, and Ostlander Ruffians) automatically pass any and all Leadership checks they're required to make. Not just Fear, or All Alone checks. All checks, be it Stupidity, the Leadership Check to maintain the Sword of Rezhebel (Burn baby burn!), tests to use items like Tarot Cards or the Wyrdstone Pendulum, the test to calm down panicking farmers in a building in Empire In Flames, etc.

bitxo wrote:
Allowing flagellants to auto-pass tests related to side effects of items or being inmune to becoming stupid due injuries seems shady to me. It doesn't make sense both gameplaywise and fluffwise. Being able to take advantage of a powerful item without having a downside is against the very spirit of randomness Mordheim has.

I understand flagellants are inmune to Lure of Chaos spell for example, that makes sense, but why should they be inmune to drugs side effects? Other models inmune to their side effects are inmune to their positive effects also.

I wouldn't argue with another player about it, because it really is what is said in the rulebook, but I doesn't seem right to me.

bitxo wrote:
Dwarf slayers aren't afraid of anything also, being able to charge a huge Demon Lord without hesitation, and aren't inmune to drugs side effects at all. Zombies have no mind and they aren't inmune at all to Lure of Chaos spell... I don't like to mix fluff with rules, because it's not only about what makes sense from fluff perspective, but making the game balanced and fun. Undead are inmune to drugs and venoms effects, positive and negative. Flagellants being inmune just to drugs negative side effects doesn't make any sense to me, they may become stupid when a promoted one rolls that injury in the hero table, but not due drugs use? It sounds like a exploit to me, and I would house rule it if my group agrees.

We should discuss it in a separate post if you guys want, to avoid filling this one with offtopic.

What are your thoughts on this? For models that automatically pass any and all Leadership Checks, would you rather they instead use the Dwarf Slayer rule where they are instead Immune to Psychology and All Alone Checks? (Or should it be Immune To Fear?)
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: RAW vs RAI - Side Effects of Autopassing Leadership Checks.   Thu 30 Jun 2016 - 9:59

I really liked which ever version of Warhammer that made immune to psychology into immune to fear and terror. As a house rule we have long played that immune to psychology in Mordheim translates as immune to fear and all alone tests. We have toyed with making fanatical and crazed into immune to fear and all alone, but our group changes membership so often, its hard to keep warband specific rules straight.

Fortunately even though I feel I play with the most literal warhammer players on the planet, they are not the most meticulous of rules lawyers, so most witch hunter and Possessed warbands do not make full use of dark soul or flagellant's potential.

My group also plays with the Relics of the Crusades warbands frequently. It seems every other warband written for that setting includes flagellants or counts as flagellants, which is really annoying.
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PostSubject: Re: RAW vs RAI - Side Effects of Autopassing Leadership Checks.   Thu 30 Jun 2016 - 10:28

Admittedly, RoTC armies look incredibly nasty in their own little vacuum. Especially given that Ghutani can take Flagellants, Muzil's can take 2 Scholars/have 6 heroes at Warband creation and Slaver Eunuchs can also engage in ranged combat, as well as capturing any and all animals/henchmen that come their way...and theoretically having no limit on how many Eunuchs they have. Yikes!
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PostSubject: Re: RAW vs RAI - Side Effects of Autopassing Leadership Checks.   Wed 6 Jul 2016 - 23:17

Von Kurst wrote:
As a house rule we have long played that immune to psychology in Mordheim translates as immune to fear and all alone tests.  We have toyed with making fanatical and crazed into immune to fear and all alone...

We did something similar, but included immune to Hatred and Stupidity as well for ItP, so they can't be affected by some spells/effects that may cause them.
This lets Vampires still benefit from Frenzy (makes sense!).

We hadnt implemented the Fanatical/Crazed change, but on the few occasions it came up I think we did improvise the way you did it too. I think I'll make that official for our house rules.

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PostSubject: Re: RAW vs RAI - Side Effects of Autopassing Leadership Checks.   Today at 4:34

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