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rfalkner
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PostSubject: Skaven warband suggestions   Sun 24 Apr 2016 - 10:10

Hello boring mordheimers.

I'm going to start a campaign soon vs 3 og my friends.

They are playing Orc, Goblin and Witch hunter.

I'm going to try out Skaven for the first time, but im really unsure about which starting warband i should go with.


Currently im thinking about a warband like this, but i dont like the idea of spamming slings tbh. It sounds too cheasy:


I have also thought about taking all heroes + rat ogre, but i know all 3 of them are running some repeater xbows or normal bows.

Another thought is taking all heroes and a few henchmen and equip my heroes very well (Assasin with 2x Warplock etc)


If any of you would like to share your detailed warband and/or thoughts on this i would forever be grateful.

Thanks in advane Sir, yes sir!
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Grimscull
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven warband suggestions   Sun 24 Apr 2016 - 11:53

There are already a few threads where people experienced with them share their thoughts. Most people would probably advise you towarts your last thought. Just one quick question: equipping ALL your 15 models with slings is NOT spamming?
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rfalkner
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven warband suggestions   Sun 24 Apr 2016 - 12:10

Yes, ive read possibly every one of them. But there is never someone sharing their entire warband with weapons etc.

My build is very sling-spamming, which im saying, im not a big fan of :-)

That is also why i seek other warbuild/tactics
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bitxo
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven warband suggestions   Sun 24 Apr 2016 - 14:33

With the typical naked skaven with slings list you will probably perform great, but your friends will probably feel frustrated... and that isn't very fun. It's a way to exploit the warband, and totally legit, but I think giving your rivals a chance makes the game more interesting.

Giving different tactic roles and proper equipment to fulfill it, is a different approach to the band I find more fun. For example, making the two black skaven and some verminkin close combat specialists, the assassin and the sorcerer short range support, and some other verminking with slings midrange support.
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven warband suggestions   Sun 24 Apr 2016 - 15:08

As usual I am lost with how slings will win the fight. But I play in my group and you all play somewhere else.

Slings might win you the fight, but it would be up to you to deploy them properly and up to your opponents to fall for your trap. Which all seems kind of dependent on the situation to me. How much terrain is on the table, how aggressive or passive your opponents are, how lucky you are.

Quote :
They are playing Orc, Goblin and Witch hunter.
...but i know all 3 of them are running some repeater xbows or normal bows.

I am also confused as to how the above warbands could field repeater x-bows in beginning warbands, but perhaps only rfalkner is the beginning player...

If there are fifteen models, why do you need to shoot to win? Sheer numbers will win you most fights.

I always start with the heroes and rat ogre combination. I have never lost my first battle.
~The warband is fast.
~A good spell is pretty likely and even Children of the Horned Rat is good, especially if you start with the heroes and rat ogre.
~You have three killy heroes and a MONSTER. The shooting of beginning warbands is awful. If they bought crossbows, then there are fewer shots. Use cover and speed to move into position and then use overwhelming force to break them.

The skaven are a very forgiving warband, have fun.
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven warband suggestions   Sun 24 Apr 2016 - 16:55

I agree with Von Kurst about slings. They are reasonably strong if your opponent just chases after you completely blind to tactics and cover. If they have any ranged elements they will out range you. If you have adequate terrain, they'll always be in cover, and you'll always be moving meaning that you'll be hitting on 6's and 7's. Not very effective.

As VK said skaven are very forgiving so don't be afraid to mix it up. Rat ogres are fun and have that fear factor to them (literally). There is a place for slings  in a skaven warband but the idea that they are the bane of all warbands is slightly silly.  I have found that the greatest equalizer in Mordheim is terrain. Play a couple games, and if shooting warbands are just absolutely dominating (after trying different approaches and tactics), YOU NEED MORE TERRAIN!!

Other than that just do what you feel, keep both feet on the wheel, cause it's gonna be a wild ride!!
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bitxo
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven warband suggestions   Mon 25 Apr 2016 - 5:36

This is just my opinion based on experience against skaven in two different groups and having run also a skaven band a few times. Of course different groups may have completely different opinions based in how good the skaven players of their groups are and how their table's composition is. IMO, in a proper Mordheim table with enough scenery, skaven and their high mobility have good chances to reach sling's short range without being shot by enemy's crossbows, just climbing, jumping and hiding in safe spots. You may hit one of them sometimes... but then even if you get OOA your hunt will be just a 22 or 25 gc guy. I have played against them plenty of times with dwarves and mercenaries, having ranged intensive bands.

Why is the mid range sling spam more effective with skaven than using high numbers in close combat? they are less likely to suffer retaliation and can attack fear causing enemies without worries. Skaven are vulnerable to rout tests once you loose enough models, so shooting from safe possition the closest targets and the enemies with ranged weapons will almost ensure you won't get counter charges, while if you just charge into close combat, you may get the first attack, but you will be open to retaliation and counter charges, and once you have lost 25% ouf your guys, it's just a countdown to retreat.

I've tried different approaches to counter sling spam, but even a whole band of R4 guys can't hold a rain of 6 shoots for every guy you have in front row. They may won't get OOA, but they will be kissing the floor and unable to reach the slings next turn. If you have some really fast models and the skaven player is smart enough, they will be his first targets. If you have marksmen to shoot the skaven once they are exposed... try it, their cheap two shoots per round are more effective than your expensive one shoot per round, and he has twice or three times more shooters than you have. If you have something powerfull like a tilean marksman, the skaven player should send two or three guys to charge him when the sling spam starts. If you protect him with close combat specialists, you will have less guys in the front row to hold the sling spam.

Sling spam works most times because it's more cost effective than any counter tactic you may choose. I have won against them many times, of course, but with that list skavens have won most campaigns they played. It gives the skaven player a huge advantage during the first matches, and unlike most warbands it's really cheap to replace losses... and once they can afford things like a brace of warlock pistols for the assassin or getting the rat ogre, usually after just three or four matches, you are pretty much screwed. A concerned skaven player or some house rules are the only thing I've found effective to counter that overpowered list.

But the most important thing, it's a really boring and frustrating setup to play against.
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven warband suggestions   Mon 25 Apr 2016 - 12:58

You gots to have Eshin Fighting Claws! They are what make skaven heroes heroic. I guess it depends if you are playing similarly competitive and cost efficient players but we always wanted badass heroes more than we wanted to win. Eshin Fighting Claws are badass. Weeping blades are also cool. Do I remember my victory count? Nope, but I do remember Squeedly diving charging a vampire with his Claws to put him ooa and Jak Flak tearing my brothers possessed apart with Weeping Blades whilst his cowardly henchman just stood there quivering with terror.

Personally when I play as Skaven I tool up my Assassin Adept with Weeping Blades and my 2 black skaven with Claws and attempt to rampage with them. A few skills and they're killing machines. They also spice up the band a bit as night runners and verminkin have such limited weapon choices. (I just go with sword and sling for them. I know clubs are more efficient but I like to stick em with the pointy end rather then bonk em on the head)

But again, the people I played had the same ambition of cool heroes so it is a bit more forgiving.
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