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 Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?

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Yodhrin
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PostSubject: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Tue 14 Jul 2015 - 1:55

I've played a couple of games of Age of Sigmarines, which pretty much cemented my doubts and dislikes, but while it's a massive shame GW killed the real Warhammer world and that the game is so rubbish, my main concern at this point is how it might affect my efforts to draw people into Mordheim.

Outside of us diehards Mordheim has been a dead game officially for years now, but I never had trouble convincing people to get involved in campaigns based on the rules because even with the edition changes in the years since Mordheim's release, the basic mechanics are still broadly similar to WHFB. It's familiar enough that it's easy to pick up for most WHFB players, they'd really only have to "learn" the campaign/post game systems.

Assuming it's reasonably successful as far as GW are concerned it's probably not going anywhere regardless of how many vets get driven away, so in a couple of years time we're likely going to start running into people at clubs & stores who don't know anything about the fiction of the Old World that Mordheim is based in and will never have played a game of WHFB, they'll only know Age of Sigmarillion, the rules for which are so alien to previous GW games it will mean essentially convincing these guys to learn an entirely new ruleset from scratch.

Having been the guy who tries to introduce entirely new games to clubs before, that can be struggle even when you provide all the models yourself Neutral
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Nordheim
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Tue 14 Jul 2015 - 5:23

Well, I've only been halfway-in with Warhammer, for... forever.
Been purchasing miniatures and painting and whatnot, Watching battlereports but never really played the game.
But the thing that lured me into Mordheim was actually the battlereports on youtube, I just linked a friend a battlereport and immediately he was hooked, sad thing that we're on different continents for the time being though.
I think it's more about the gameplay, the pre/post-game and the feel of progress that will bring people in, in my knowledge there is only Mordheim and Necromunda that makes the game really "matter" after the game.

I can even imagine it's rather easy to lure people in, who usually don't play miniature games.
I have a theory that it would be rather easy to convince those who usually just play boardgames, that it would be a fantastic idea to play Mordheim.
Mordheim requires so much less than fantasy, if there's just one diehard fan who create the terrain and whatnot, it's just smooth sailing for the rest.

the Sigmarines killed fantasy, But I think Mordheim is as "safe" as ever, Might even get people who usually just play fantasy to come visit the city of the damned more often.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Tue 14 Jul 2015 - 6:18

G.W. will only cause Mordheim problems if they involve themselves in the game again...fortunately, a highly unlikely possibility.

There is a thread on the Age of Sigmar here:

http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t8399-warhammer-age-of-sigmar

AND, I'm sure the Folk who haunt the G.W. discussion thread on L.A.F. are having pro & con fun with the new rules. Feel free to discuss it at length, but any flaming will be frowned upon...G.W. falls in the politics & religion category for discussions.   What a Face
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Tue 14 Jul 2015 - 6:25

Half of the last few new recruits we have gotten have come from role-playing or 40K.  I expect it will vary from group to group.  I also expect that there will be Oldhammer groups popping up as well, if GW doesn't relent and make the new game more like the old.

When our Mordheim group formed, ALL of us were Warhammer players. Now none of the old guard play Warhammer at all. Its not unusual for us to mention a Warhammer location or time line and have most of the new guys not have any idea what we are referencing.
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Mike
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Tue 14 Jul 2015 - 21:45

I rarely play at local game stores anymore so recruitment was never hinged on people knowing Warhammer's lore beforehand anyway. We draw from friends and fellow gamers, even if that is small. I think I understand what you are saying though.

Nordheim wrote:
But I think Mordheim is as "safe" as ever, Might even get people who usually just play fantasy to come visit the city of the damned more often.
This would be a cool side-effect. Destruction of the Warhammer world as we know it may draw some refugees to Mordheim.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Sat 18 Jul 2015 - 12:07

There's always the chance that people get into Age of Sigmar and after a while decide they want to try something similar but a bit more rulesy and in-depth, and hear from Warhammer veterans about Mordheim, or find out about it by digging around the internet for other games from Games Workshop
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Sat 25 Jul 2015 - 14:01

I've never been a big fan of the Fantasy fighting mechanic for small skirmishes and think AoS might be helpful in Morheim. Opinions? Would be beneficial/possible to integrate aspects of the AoS rules into Mordheim (leaving out the no-points cost part of course)?
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Sun 26 Jul 2015 - 21:01

I'm sure someone will try to combine AoS with Mordheim. I don't really see the point though.

I actually thought the Age of Shareholders started when Mordheim was cancelled at GW. Wink The community has shrunk but the game lives on and that will remain true now. My gaming group came to Mordheim without any prior GW experience.
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mweaver
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Fri 31 Jul 2015 - 19:28

Of the fair number of people I have taught how to play Mordheim, I think maybe two had ever played Warhammer. Mordheim stands on its own.

-Michael
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Wed 5 Aug 2015 - 15:17

If this web site is not providing enough living proof that the End Times was a convenient marking ploy to sell books and launch a new format to sell more plastic toys, then just Google the world 'Oldhammer' and enter the world of retro tabletop hobby fun.

Is Mordheim the city of damned? Yes.

Have the End Times arrived? Yes.

So f*****g what! Let's paint and let's roll.
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mweaver
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Wed 5 Aug 2015 - 15:46

Some nifty terrain coming out though. The new figures so far do not excite me.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Wed 5 Aug 2015 - 15:48

I think the biggest problem that AoS might bring for us is if it at one point or another scraps the plastic kits that have been used to build many warbands. Imagine if everything will eventually be looking like the stormcast, that is a pretty big leap from the old Mordheim charm. There are of course plenty of alternative models but GW's standard offerings have been a great way for people to build their warbands quickly and easily.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Wed 5 Aug 2015 - 20:04

The plastic warband/Empire militia are still probably my favorite plastic set ever because of their character and diversity. However, I have recently been binging and buying boxes of plastic multi-part kits from several manufacturers, and there are some very nice kits to draw from: Fireforge, Warlord Games, Gripping Beast, Conquest, and the just-released soldier figures for Frostgrave. So the number of (more affordable) alternatives are growing. Still, I will be sad to see some of the really nice Empire kits disappear, that is very true.
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Yodhrin
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Thu 6 Aug 2015 - 0:38

mweaver wrote:
Some nifty terrain coming out though.  The new figures so far do not excite me.

I'm quite enjoying the not-Marauders from the starter box(the leaked images of their "proper" boxed release not so much for some reason), indeed in a bit of irony the responses in here got me inspired & fired-up so I'll be using them to help create four different Chaos warbands so I can run a short wee "Path to Glory"-style mini-campaign as a way to try and draw in new folk at local clubs Very Happy

On which point I have a question about the BtB Marauder rules, I'll post it in a new thread in a moment.

Regards the terrain, honestly almost all of it isn't to my taste. The architectural style doesn't really work for the Old World save maybe for ancient Elven ruins, but even that is somewhat spoiled by the fact there are Sigmarines carved onto most flat surfaces. The one exception is a pic of one of the "big reveal" tables at Warhammer World showing a building that would be perfect for Mordheim's main Temple of Sigmar(where the grandiose architectural style and hammer & Sigmarine motif don't seem so out of place), but the question is whether that's an actual building kit we'll be able to buy, or if it's A; a scratchbuild with some AoS elements attached, or B; another essentially GW-only kitbash where they use dozens upon dozens of certain components that you only get one or two of in a kit, meaning it would cost mere customers thousands of pounds to build. We'll have to wait a while to find out I suspect, since if the rumours are right the next month will be Khorne models & terrain plus a couple more lots of existing models repackaged with round bases, then the Heresy plastics.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Thu 6 Aug 2015 - 1:30

Age of Shareholders - love the name! Is anyone daring or foolish enough to still have shares in this global toy manufacturer!

I suspect Gutrot Spume was the final GW miniature release that I will splash out on (a relief at the sheer cost) as none of this new wave nonsense appeals to me.

I look forward to all future investments being made in cold hard lead, having just spent 75 pounds at Wargames Foundry to procure re-released and unreleased Citadel miniatures and plan to back any nice looking Kickstarters by ex-GW sculptors that fit in with vision of Mordheim and retro Warhammer style Fantasy Battle settings.

The plastic militia kit remains the ultimate sprue for generating and accessorizing warbands so make sure you stock up on those before they become obsolete on the web store. Already I see secondary market prices for plastic kits hitting the £40-50 mark yet there are not even OOP at this time.

Regards,

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mweaver
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Thu 6 Aug 2015 - 6:06

Yodhrin, I agree about the new terrain kits not fitting Mordheim. I am going to winterize them and use them for our D&D campaign and for Frostgrave.

Incidentally, the Frostgrave plastic set is very rich in accessories: rope and pouches in fair abundance.

-Michael
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Thu 6 Aug 2015 - 6:54

What's the detail like on those Frostgrave plastics out of interest? I was quite interested but they looked a little "soft" to me, although if GW have taught me anything it's that you can make any plastic model look a bit rubbish with the wrong paintjob and photo lighting, heh.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Thu 6 Aug 2015 - 11:03

I have assembled some, but not painted any. They seem fine to me. As I understand it, they were done by the same sculptor who did the fireforge sergeants.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Thu 6 Aug 2015 - 11:47

The diorama that GW sent to Gen Con was quite nice. The various kits were incorporated into a coherent ruin which would be great (if expensive). The Age of Skullz seems to have passed for the Age of Something Else.

@Micheal--where did you get your Frostgrave minis? I had hoped that I could pick some up at Gen Con, but they only had rulebooks for sale (at least by the time I got there on Sunday).
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Thu 6 Aug 2015 - 12:28

I ordered mine from Northstar direct, since before GenCon Brigade Games listed them as preorders.  But Brigade now has them listed on the website as available.

http://brigadegames.3dcartstores.com/Frostgrave-Soldiers_c_582.html

$35 for 20 is not bad.  You have four identical sprues.  Each sprue has:

5 bodies (legs/torsos combined)
10 heads
Basic weapon/shield arms
A left arm with lantern and a right pointing arm
2 arrow quivers and one bolt quiver
2 coils of rope
2 small belt pouches, a backpack (or large satchel), and a sack (although I think of it as a pillow case).
2 shields and a spare helmet, and a torch


Last edited by mweaver on Thu 6 Aug 2015 - 12:29; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : clumsy typing)
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Thu 6 Aug 2015 - 12:42

How did you enjoy GenCon, by the way? I have not been able to attend since the early 90s - used to love going. But it tends to fall right after my wife's school district has started up again. She has loved our trips to Historicon when we manage them, so I am sure she would enjoy GenCon as well. Buy lots of neat stuff?
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Thu 6 Aug 2015 - 13:03

Thanks for the description. I was hoping to hold a sprue, or at least a box set in my hand before purchase. I am not a fan of buying an image on a screen.

I like the look of Frostgrave, but I think of it in what can I use in Mordheim terms.

Gen Con was ok. This year was the first year I could have gone every day if I wanted to. It used to fall on my mother's birthday and my first couple of weeks back to work, but for some reason they shoved the convention into the end of July this year. I am finding less stuff to buy, but more stuff on offer. What's hot now seems to be board games and card games as opposed to minis.

Of course I still managed to spend a bit more than the budget... Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Will Age of Shareholders cause us problems?   Thu 6 Aug 2015 - 15:14

For minis and terrain, Historicon is well worth checking out. Reaper and some of the other big RPG-aimed mini lines are not there, but there are tons and tons of historical lines and terrain available in the dealers' room, and many of the people hosting games set out gorgeous boards. Despite the name, there are a fair number of Pulp, SciFi, and fantasy games on offer.

I had the impression that GenCon was more dominated by board games than back when I attended in days of yore, when it was still heavily weighted toward RPGs.

If they keep it this time of year, we might be able to go one of these days.

I have read the Frostgrave rules, and it looks very promising. Different emphasis than Mordheim, as it is all about the wizards and the magic. Rules for the wizards and spell casting are thorough and there are lots and lots of options. But the rest of the warband is just there to protect the wizards. Only your wizard and his apprentice earn experience and gain improvements, so evenly the lowly Mordheim henchman has a more promising career arc in front of him. Melee and missile combat in Frostgrave is more simple than in Mordheim - far fewer special rules for different weapons, for example.

I suspect that, after playing some Frostgrave, that I am going to be very tempted to bash together something composed of the best bits of both systems - which is going to be more complicated and require more record keeping than either parent game, but that works for me.

Back on topic, Frostgrave looks to be quite popular, and a popular game so similar in concept to Mordheim should more than make up for any potential erosion of interest in Mordheim caused by the shift to the new Age of Sigmar system, I would think.

-Michael

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