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 Some questions (da mob rules and other things)

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whiskeytango
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 13:59

Actually, spears dont automatically allow you to strike first if you're charged, since a charging character also has the "always strike first" rule, so its instead worked out in initiative order.

I agree with you, Rory, that spears are better investment after a henchmen group has gained an extra attack, rather than before. Otherwise, they're a pretty pricey single attack that doesn't always allow you to get the first hit in anyways. I'm not a fan of the idea of spears on Orc boyz, since unless they've gotten an initiative upgrade it will only benefit them against dwarves and zombies, for the most part. Not worth the investment. For fully level Boyz, i would go with either axes or halberds as the secondary weapon.

Also, you can still use a shield in close combat while using a spear or morning star, but not with a halberd.
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 18:40

rory wrote:
@ Lord O: If I give my boss a crossbow I do away with all the skills I have already given him (step aside and mighty blow). Doesn't seem logical.
If you have BS4 and WS3 then giving him another melee skill is, to my mind, throwing good money after bad. Give him Nimble so he can be a support shooter, rather than a sniper. Trust me, you will still get a *lot* of use out of those melee skills Smile. If he doesn't get a point of WS before he gets another skill then give him QuickShot. After that, feel free to give him more melee skills.

When I run my orcs I make a Big'un specialize in close-range support shooting. Eventually he ends up with Pistoleer, Knife Fighter, Brace of crossbow pistols, and throwing knives. In addition to that he will also have melee skills such as Resilient, Strike to Injure, etc.

rory wrote:
Could you elaborate on your choice for spears as second, back up, weapons?
You are right, I only give them spears if they have 2 attacks and +I. That means that if they are charged by I3 attackers they will at least get to dice for the first attacks. We recently added a house-rule that gave spears +1I, so they are even better for that.

You declare what weapons you are using for a combat at the start of the first round, so there is no need to say which melee weapons you are using until combat actually starts.

rory wrote:
How does this work with shields guys?
The purchase order goes:
First bought: Axes and daggers
After a few games: shield.
After a few more games: Toughened leathers (generally hand-me-down from heroes).
After +S or +A: Light Armour and Helmet.

I use the shield when I mostly want to keep the henchman alive until more numbers get there, or if my opponent is using a dagger. Because we have the house-rule that shields give an additional +1 AS in melee it means that I generally have a 4+ save vs daggers.

Regardless of what you are armed with, if you are equipped with a shield you get a 6+ armour save against shooting. If you have light armour as well it will increase to 5+. If you have Well 'Ard it will increase to 4+. If you can steal a wolf cloak off someone, it will increase to 3+.

I think the rule you are talking about is the rule that allows *only* a shield to be wielded in close combat with that weapon.
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 20:47

I recommend Weapons Expert and a blunderbuss. The boss can keep the troll moving quickly, but be deadly to any clumps of enemies encountered along the way.
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Mon 23 Feb 2015 - 3:31

Lord O, thanks for the tips. But regarding the shields, you would get them, but they take up 1 attack am I right? Is that not a bit of a waste? It would mean your basic henchmen would only have 1 attack am I correct?

The tactic with your big un you are referring to. You would use your pistols, and then when you have to reload you would use the trowing knives am I right? I am not very familiar with the knives, thats why I ask. I just have to get used to the idea of using your orc heroes as ranged warriors. When would you commit this big un to close combat? Only when necesarry?
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Mon 23 Feb 2015 - 9:42

Basic henchmen only have one attack, yes. But if that henchman with an axe or sword and shield is against, say, a meatshield henchman with a club and dagger, then I would generally rather have the 5+ save vs the club and 4+ save vs the dagger than the extra attack.

Also, if I charge, I will generally use axe and dagger if I think I can take them out in 1 round. If I am charged then I will often receive with the axe and shield.

Basically, if I am going for the kill I dual wield, if I am trying to stall that combat for whatever reason, I use the shield.

You don't lose an attack for wielding a shield per se, but if you use a shield in melee then then you won't get an extra off-hand attack.

For the Close Support Bigg'un I use crossbow pistols because they don't need to reload. Crossbow pistols for when you need the range, throwing knives for when you have the range and just need more hits. Feel free to swap either of those for the blunderbuss mentioned by Von Kurst; I will have to model that myself and give it a try. Sounds good to me, though.
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Mon 23 Feb 2015 - 14:07

Oke that makes it more clear, when is switching of weapons allowed then? At the start of your turn? So if I cannot charge and know I will not be charged I have to declare that my henchmen are equipping their shields for the turn to get the save? Or do you always get save regardless of having it equipped? Like a piece of armour?

A second thought I have, is if it would be usefull atm, to  get a familiar for my shaman (if he can find it), so I can reroll spells. He is close combat orientated though, but just lost 1 toughness because of a chest wound.

I am also wondering if it is worth giving dome orc warriors xbows, it is an expensive weapon to give to a lowly henchmen. What do you guys think?
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Mon 23 Feb 2015 - 22:30

What weapons you have in your hands only really matters in melee combat. If you are equipped with a shield you can claim the bonuses for it. At the start of melee combat is when you decide what you actually have in your hands for that combat e.g. sword and axe, sword and shield, axe and shield, etc. Note that once you decide you cannot change (except for pistols in the first round) even if more enemies join the same combat. However, once you are free from that combat you can decide what you will use in the next combat as soon as it starts.

A familiar would be fantastic for you to get. Get it for him as soon as possible; also Tomes of Magic to give him more spells.

Personally, I don't give my henchmen crossbows until all my heroes have them and I am finding enough to equip a whole group. I give all my heroes either bows or crossbows as soon as I can. I certainly never *buy* crossbows for henchmen.

As a quick overview of an early layout:
Leader: Crossbow
Shaman: Bow
Big'un: Bow
Big'un: Bow
TLGT Boy: Crossbow
TLGT Boy: Crossbow

As mentioned earlier, one of the Big'uns eventually becomes a close support guy and gets crossbow pistols and throwing knives (although I will probably swap one of those for a blunderbuss next time I run orcs - thanks Von Kurst). He alternates melee skills and ranged skills.

My TLGT boys are snipers - one Blackpowder specialist and the other Bow specialist.
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Tue 24 Feb 2015 - 9:21

Oke, but you are basically running a different warband from me? You are going for full ranged, or do you give them ranged weapons if they cannot get in to a fight? I mean the shaman obviously has the most potential doing his magic or am I missing something?

Lord O, just so I have things clear. When you are walking about, do you always need to have the shield equipped to have te bonus? It seems a bit illogical to have a 6 plus save against ranged if you dont have the shield in your hands (and thus equipped). But what I get from your story is, you always have the save if you just have the shield. In close combat you really have to have it in your hands. Can someone verify this? It just seems t me a bit of a 'waste' to give heroes with 1 attack a shield in close combat. the 5+ save is usually easily brought to a 6+ (unless you have the well ard skill. For that you sacrifice 1 attack.


This brings me to my next question: if you have toughned leather and a shield. Dus this give you 2 x 6+ save?

Regards,

rory
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Tue 24 Feb 2015 - 16:04

Its assumed, when being shot at, that your shield is equipped. You don't have to specify that you're using it, you just automatically get the save it grants. In close combat though, you do have to specify which equipment you're using.

Having toughened leathers and a shield is basically redundant, as their saves don't stack with eachother, and you only get to roll one armour save per attack. Thats something you may want to house rule though, as not being able to combine toughened leathers with a shield is pretty ridiculous.
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Tue 24 Feb 2015 - 18:30

rory wrote:
Oke, but you are basically running a different warband from me? You are going for full ranged, or do you give them ranged weapons if they cannot get in to a fight? I mean the shaman obviously has the most potential doing his magic or am I missing something?
The heroes all have ranged for when they cannot or it would be unwise to charge. I only have one group of ranged henchmen, the others are either melee specialists or meatshields. The shooting is to give me more options and having it, even just the threat of it and don't actually use it, is well worth the gold. Also, it depends a lot on the scenario. Sometimes you want to rush across the map and melee, sometimes you want to turtle for a bit and *then* rush across the map, e.g. if you are the defender of wizard's mansion or Ambush, or something. In any case, it is generally only the TLGT snipers that hang back, but even they get a few close combat skills for if they are charged, and won't hesitate to do so themselves if required.

rory wrote:
It just seems t me a bit of a 'waste' to give heroes with 1 attack a shield in close combat. the 5+ save is usually easily brought to a 6+ (unless you have the well ard skill. For that you sacrifice 1 attack.
It is situational. Sometimes the better save is more useful, sometimes the extra attack is more useful. For example, something I will do as often as I can is tie up my oponent's henchmen and lesser melee heroes with my henchmen while my heavy hitters gang up on and take out my opponent's heavy hitters. Then the heroes take out the remaining henchmen*.

rory wrote:
if you have toughned leather and a shield. Dus this give you 2 x 6+ save?
Nope, the toughened leather specifically says it won't stack with a shield. However, it *will* stack with everything else, e.g. daggers, Well 'Ard, etc. +1 to whiskeytango's explanation of the shield and toughened leathers rules, but I would recommend against the house rule. It makes Light Armour utterly redundant and the ability to stack it with a shield is all Light Armour has over Toughened leathers. Toughened Leathers fills a niche by being cheap armour inexpensive enough to give to a mediocre henchman. This makes daggers less appealing and helps discourage the dual-wield spam you see in many games.

* It is, of course, rare that an opponent will *let* me do this, but it is something I try for if I can make /  am given the opportunity.
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Thu 26 Feb 2015 - 7:52

Okey guys, this cleares up alot for me. @Whiskeytango, thanks! Just a few more things though Wink

Does well'ard affect the step aside save? This making it a 4+?

Lord O, your tactic of keeping his henchmen and weaker heroes busy, is exactly what I do. If you turtle as an orc player, how do you handle the anemosity? Make sure that every henchmen is as close yo a hero as possible?

You are saying that toughned leather will stack with well ard? Thus making it a 5+ save? Just as strong as heavy armour?

If you already have step aside and lets say take leather with well ard, can you choose which save you use? Seeing as the well ard save could be brought to a 6+ by someone with S4. Are you even allowed to choose?

Regards.
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Thu 26 Feb 2015 - 11:13

Basically, Well 'Ard gives you an Armour save, Step Aside gives you a Dodge Save. They do not add together, but you can take both and use both.

Well 'Ard stacks with all other armour saves as per normal, e.g. shields, light armour, etc. E.g. light armour, shield, and Well 'Ard will give you a 4+ armour save vs most things, 3+ vs daggers. Well 'ard *will* stack with Toughened Leathers, but Toughened Leathers will *not* stack with a shield.

When I am turtling it is generally because the scenario demands it. Almost all the time when it is the best thing to do you will all be in the one building, maybe two, so you are grouped up anyway. I pretty much group as much as is practical, but if a henchman runs forward, so it goes. It is the price you pay for cheap T4 henchmen Smile.
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Fri 27 Feb 2015 - 12:55

Thanks Lord O for the clarifications. I am in a dilemma on what to do with the boss.

First of all, 'Da cunning plan' doesnt really seem worth it. It only works if the boss is still alive, and usually by the time a ld test is needed I want to reduce my losses and leave the battle anyway. Doesnt seem to be worth it at the moment.

The throwing knives with the knife expert seems a good choice at the moment, if you can get within the 6 inches though. I remeberd that my boss also has a leg wound and thus -1 movement (movement 3). Plus seeying as his ws is now 3 it would maybe be wise to keep him out of close combat. I understand you always keep your boss out of close combat lord O? Isnt that against the whole strenghts and purpopse of the greenskin warband? I mean they are made for close combat arent they?

The crossbow option seems good also, but it would require nimble. Then I am really considering getting him well ard. what do you think?

Regards
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Fri 27 Feb 2015 - 18:33

At the start of the campaign? No - it is not very often worth it to get Da Cunning Plan. I *always* get it as my first orc leader skill though, for a few reasons. 1/ It has a cool name. I really like the idea that I have a mechanical representation of how cunning my leader is. YMMV. 2/ I like to have it just in case I get lucky with the scenario and mission reward rolls.

I am going to exaggerate for effect, just to make the point really clear, but because of maps, pendulums, and tarot cards, etc, this isn't too far off how late mid to end games go. OK, imagine there are 3 warbands of 12 and you are doing Wizard's Mansion. You have lost 4 henchmen, someone else has lost 3 heroes and a henchman and the last poor bastid has lost 4 heroes. Each of you have 2 Tarot cards each (activated) and are really looking forward to the 2+ roll for a Tome of Magic that this would allow. You roll a rout test and roll a 10. Wouldn't you *really* like to stick around a bit and see what happens?

Scenarios such as Wizard's Mansion, Monster Hunt, Hidden Treasure, etc. all give a much bigger bonus for winning than for surviving, so this is where things like Da Cunning Plan really shine.

As far as your leader goes, the whole suite for knife-fighter would be Weapons Training, Knife Fighter, and Eagle Eye. Consider getting him Weapons training first and then giving him a crossbow pistol and a crossbow. He can use the pistol close if he moves and the crossbow long range if he doesn't. Then get him Eagle Eye and swap out the crossbow pistol for the throwing knives, then finally get knife fighter for the tripple shots.

I don't think you have to worry about Nimble too much because with M3 most of your movement is going to be run-shoot-run-shoot, etc. Leap or Sprint will help him keep up.

Once you have got a shooting skill or two, then go for Well 'Ard.

Something to remember about orcs that pretty much everyone overlooks is that orcs (or at least, orc *leaders*) aren't stupid. Yes, of course, for humans, dwarfs, elves, and so forth violence is a last resort wheras for orcs it is the first, preferred, and *only* option. But that doesn't make them *stupid*. Orc generals are every bit as aware of strategy and tactics as their counterparts, but they have different priorities and different troops to work with. Heck, even their gods! Gork and Mork are the twin gods of brutal cunning and cunning brutality - *neither* of them are gods of mindless violence.

Anyway, what I am leading up to is that I don't keep him out of combat per se, but rather that he follows and guides* his orcs and then charges in when it will make the most difference, all while giving covering fire, if possible. I honestly don't think I could *completely* keep him out of close combat, even if I wanted to.

For what is it worth, the orc models I use are these ones. Not those *actual* ones, of course - mine aren't nearly as well painted. Or even as *completely* painted.

* by punching them and physically pointing them in the right direction, if when necessary.
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Fri 27 Feb 2015 - 19:44

Lord 0 wrote:
Each of you have 2 Tarot cards each (activated) and are really looking forward to the 2+ roll for a Tome of Magic that this would allow.

Sorry for going a bit off topic, but I'm pretty sure this isn't RAW Rolling Eyes

Tarot Cards apply in the exporation phase, which is after injuries and experience is dealt with.

It is not mentioned anywhere, that loot won in battle is part of this exploration phase, but rather that the rolls are made "at the end of the game" in the case of Wizard's Mansion. Same applies to Monster Hunt, where the loot goes to the warband who has control over the monster's lair "at the end of the game".

While I do not mind that some would play with Tarot Cards being able to alter these percentages, I believe it's a house rule, that should be agreed on.
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Sat 28 Feb 2015 - 7:10

The first scenario to use that kind of loot table is Hidden Treasure in the base game. There, it clearly says you roll on the loot table 'after the game'. In my group we choose to roll on this table during the exploration phase thus allowing the use of Rabbit Foots and Tarot Cards. In Monster Hunt the loot is awarded to whoever is controlling the lair "at the end of the game" therefore you *cannot* be in possession of the loot until *after* the game and immediately after the game is the post battle sequence. I suppose if you really wanted to you could roll for the loot during the Injuries or Allocate Experience phase, but that doesn't really fit thematically, nor would it let you use the items that were specifically invented to affect loot generation.

Admittedly, the Wizard's Mansion wording is a little vague, but since when has GW had consistent and clear writing in its *rules* let alone its scenarios? In any case, we believe that the 'at the end of the game' part refers specifically to the loot that was on the board during the game and that the wizard's loot should be rolled on at the same time as is set by precedent by the other scenarios.

I suppose if your group are RAW fanatics you can play two scenarios one way and the wizard's mansion a different way, but in my group - for consistency and RAI - we roll on the wizard's mansion table the same as the other two. If you can, I would *strongly* recommend either altering the interpretation for the wizards mansion to allow for GW slackness in consistency, or, if they are such sticklers that this is not enough, flat out make a house rule that brings Wizard's Mansion more in line with the other scenarios. Good luck Smile.
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Sat 28 Feb 2015 - 7:14

P.S. let me know how you go with that - it always makes me happy to hear stories how how the side of Truth and Right and Fun triumph over the forces of Pedanticy and Tyranny.
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Sat 28 Feb 2015 - 15:32

Lord 0 wrote:
The first scenario to use that kind of loot table is Hidden Treasure in the base game. There, it clearly says you roll on the loot table 'after the game'.

I believe this is the relevant phrase:

Mordheim Rulebook p. 90 wrote:
Whoever recovers the chest may roll on the following chart after the game to see what the chest contains.

This is somewhat vague. This technically means, that you would be able to roll it 4 games after you have finished this. However, while this could probably be perfectly legal to do (no boss, don't open the chest yet, it's bad luck for the laddies!), I'd say that a more normal interpretation would be, that you would roll on this table the second the game is over.

You say that:

Lord 0 wrote:
In my group we choose to roll on this table during the exploration phase thus allowing the use of Rabbit Foots and Tarot Cards.

There we have it: "We choose", meaning that it is a choice you have made in your group - usually rules are not up for choosing, but clear and consistent.

Lord 0 wrote:
In Monster Hunt the loot is awarded to whoever is controlling the lair "at the end of the game" therefore you *cannot* be in possession of the loot until *after* the game and immediately after the game is the post battle sequence.

You are in possession of it "at the end of the game", and the game ends when certain things are fulfilled. So you are in possession of the loot in the second you win the game, which can never be 'after the game', as you cannot win a game that isn't there anymore. Thus you must be in possession of the loot just before 'after the game', you just roll on the chart 'after the game'.

Lord 0 wrote:
I suppose if you really wanted to you could roll for the loot during the Injuries or Allocate Experience phase, but that doesn't really fit thematically, nor would it let you use the items that were specifically invented to affect loot generation.

I suppose we play it so that we roll almost directly after the game, since that is what we read it says: "after the game". As I argued before: Yes, you could technically wait 4 games, but I really cannot see how any game designer would have that intention.

Lord 0 wrote:
Admittedly, the Wizard's Mansion wording is a little vague, but since when has GW had consistent and clear writing in its *rules* let alone its scenarios? In any case, we believe that the 'at the end of the game' part refers specifically to the loot that was on the board during the game and that the wizard's loot should be rolled on at the same time as is set by precedent by the other scenarios.

I don't see how it differs from the Monster Hunt, both say after the game, but I suppose I've overlooked something then? If you could emphasize it, that would be great! Wink

The main point I wish to come to, however, is that it doesn't say anywhere, that you are to roll the loot during the exploration phase, and that it thus doesn't qualify to Tarot & Pendulum usage. Also, I really believe it will imbalance the game even further towards high LD warbands; finding a Tome of Magic on 2+ (3+ in our group, since we do not allow modifying a dice more than once), or an Artifact in Monster Hunt on 2+, which can be re-rolled, really do not contribute to a more fun game in our opinion. I believe it would become rather dull quite fast, actually.

If it works for you, that's great, but I just don't think it would work out in our group. And I still believe it would read "roll for the loot during the exploration phase", rather than "after the game", if that was really the intention.[/quote]
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Tue 3 Mar 2015 - 18:56

Aipha wrote:
Lord 0 wrote:
The first scenario to use that kind of loot table is Hidden Treasure in the base game. There, it clearly says you roll on the loot table 'after the game'.
I believe this is the relevant phrase:
Mordheim Rulebook p. 90 wrote:
Whoever recovers the chest may roll on the following chart after the game to see what the chest contains.
This is somewhat vague. This technically means, that you would be able to roll it 4 games after you have finished this.
This is totally correct. There is not much point in doing so, but it is perfectly legal.

Aipha wrote:
However, while this could probably be perfectly legal to do (no boss, don't open the chest yet, it's bad luck for the laddies!), I'd say that a more normal interpretation would be, that you would roll on this table the second the game is over.
That might be what many impatient people would do, but there is no rule *compelling* you to do so. That is the important part. If you chose to do it immediately after the game, that is fine you are entitled to do so. If you want to do it a few phases later, that is fine also and you are legally entitled to do so.

Aipha wrote:
You say that:
Lord 0 wrote:
In my group we choose to roll on this table during the exploration phase thus allowing the use of Rabbit Foots and Tarot Cards.
There we have it: "We choose", meaning that it is a choice you have made in your group - usually rules are not up for choosing, but clear and consistent.
That is not how it works at all. The rules for rolling on the loot table allow you to roll any time "after the game". If you want you can choose to roll during the injuries phase or the allocate equipment phase or the purchasing phase or whatever. In my group we choose to do it in the exploration phase because we feel that fits more with the spirit of the game (the exploration phase is thematically the 'looting' phase) and because it, quite by coincidence I am sure, allows a mechanical advantage. Saying that us choosing of the options available to us is making a house-rule is like saying that if an item says "use once per game" then you have to make a house-rule to use it on the third turn. No. The rules give you a window of when something has to happen be it 'once per game', 'Before the game', 'during the shooting phase', 'before any movement' or what-have-you and then you choose when to do it inside that window.

Aipha wrote:
Lord 0 wrote:
In Monster Hunt the loot is awarded to whoever is controlling the lair "at the end of the game" therefore you *cannot* be in possession of the loot until *after* the game and immediately after the game is the post battle sequence.
You are in possession of it "at the end of the game", and the game ends when certain things are fulfilled. So you are in possession of the loot in the second you win the game, which can never be 'after the game', as you cannot win a game that isn't there anymore. Thus you must be in possession of the loot just before 'after the game', you just roll on the chart 'after the game'.

Aipha wrote:
Lord 0 wrote:
I suppose if you really wanted to you could roll for the loot during the Injuries or Allocate Experience phase, but that doesn't really fit thematically, nor would it let you use the items that were specifically invented to affect loot generation.
I suppose we play it so that we roll almost directly after the game, since that is what we read it says: "after the game". As I argued before: Yes, you could technically wait 4 games, but I really cannot see how any game designer would have that intention.
I doubt it too. I suspect what their intention was "any time after the first game, but before the next game" . The Exploration Phase fits inside that window perfectly legally.

Aipha wrote:
Lord 0 wrote:
Admittedly, the Wizard's Mansion wording is a little vague, but since when has GW had consistent and clear writing in its *rules* let alone its scenarios? In any case, we believe that the 'at the end of the game' part refers specifically to the loot that was on the board during the game and that the wizard's loot should be rolled on at the same time as is set by precedent by the other scenarios.
I don't see how it differs from the Monster Hunt, both say after the game, but I suppose I've overlooked something then? If you could emphasize it, that would be great! Wink
Sadly for consistency, Wizard's Mansion does *not* say "after the game". What it says is:
Chaos on the Streets wrote:
At the end of the game the winning warband finds all of the
items on the table above which were not found before the battle. In addition, roll on the following chart to see what
additional items the warband finds in the mansion.
emphasis mine. Going by RAW you could argue that by the sentence about finding the loot on the board being at the end of the game the rolling on the loot table should be at the end of the game too, and, indeed, we did. But then for consistency we house-ruled it to be the same as Monster Hunt and the treasure chest one in the original rule book.

Aipha wrote:
The main point I wish to come to, however, is that it doesn't say anywhere, that you are to roll the loot during the exploration phase, and that it thus doesn't qualify to Tarot & Pendulum usage. Also, I really believe it will imbalance the game even further towards high LD warbands; finding a Tome of Magic on 2+ (3+ in our group, since we do not allow modifying a dice more than once), or an Artifact in Monster Hunt on 2+, which can be re-rolled, really do not contribute to a more fun game in our opinion. I believe it would become rather dull quite fast, actually.
It is true that it doesn't specifically say in the exploration phase, but it doesn't have to. It says "after the game" and the exploration phase is, I hope you would agree, "after the game". The Tarot and Pendulum specifically say *any* dice roll made in the exploration phase. Hell - it doesn't even say it has to be *your* roll! (Incidentally, I recommend house-ruling that they can only affect your own rolls if you haven't already - the game gets even more brutal otherwise - Especially in something like EIF where you can die in exploration). I don't know about your group but in the group I play in this sort of thing is *necessary* especially towards the end game just to keep up with losses. And pray to the RNG gods if you roll an artifact before you are strong enough to keep it - owning one of those puppies puts a giant bullseye on your back so you better have good treaties with the other warbands or you are going down in a sea of multiplayer games. For less competitive groups I suspect it would let them get to a bit of the fun stuff before the campaign petered out or fizzled as they so often do.[/quote]

Aipha wrote:
If it works for you, that's great, but I just don't think it would work out in our group. And I still believe it would read "roll for the loot during the exploration phase", rather than "after the game", if that was really the intention.
Your opinion differs from mine and is therefore wrong :p. In our group we have largely given up trying to fathom what the hell they were thinking when they wrote their rules. These days we simply follow them exactly for a few months and if they are fun we leave them as is. If they are less fun we house-rule it. What we have found is that leaving it RAW as to when it is rolled for (altering Wizard's Mansion for consistency) and allowing Tarot cards etc to affect it adds to the long-term fun, especially with the limitations the meta-game puts on artifacts. I would recommend giving it a try and seeing how it goes - you might be surprised...
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Wed 4 Mar 2015 - 1:14

Sorry Aipha and Lord 0, tl;dr. Very Happy

I never thought of doing this because we always resolve the scenario rules immediately after the scenario and then move on to the Post Battle Phase. However, I really like this idea even if it is a house rule. It does make sense too. After all, the warband searches the wizard's mansion or monster lair after the scenario. Also, why should rolling to find out the loot in the chest won in the 'Hidden Treasure' scenario be different to rolling to find out the loot in the chest from the 'Hidden Treasure' (2 2 2 2 2 2) exploration roll.

It may or may not be a house rule, but I'll be proposing to play this way and to resolve the post scenario results in the post battle sequence.

Oh, one other thing. Again, tl;dr so it might already have been stated (sorry, kids make it hard to read long things some times Embarassed ) but there is a precedence to including the scenario loot in the post battle sequence. Distributing experience is part of the post battle sequence but is defined in the scenario rules. This is obviously explicitly mentioned while loot is not though. Therefore the other post-battle tasks for the scenario could potentially be thought of in the post battle sequence. Anyway, I *think* it is a house rule but that is mainly because I've never thought of doing it any other way and no one else that I have played with has thought of it either (after all we ALWAYS get the rules interpreted correctly albino ... suuuure Wink ).


Edited to add...
This potentially could make the Rabbit's Foot even more useful than it currently is RAW. We have a house rule in our group to limit the Rabbit's Foot to be used in the battle and NOT to be able to be used during exploration or at any point in the post battle sequence.
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions (da mob rules and other things)   Today at 2:37

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