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robert c
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PostSubject: Overwatch?   Mon 16 Feb 2015 - 12:29

Has anybody ever played in a campaign with "overwatch" House rules?

Here's what I'm talking about if you are not familiar with the term:

Overwatch

If a model does not move (other than to turn on the spot) during their turn, they may go into overwatch. This will allow the model to make one shooting attack during any of their opponent’s subsequent movement phases, with a -1 modifier to hit for being on overwatch. Once the overwatch shot has been taken that model no longer counts as being on it. Regardless of whether the shot is taken, the model can only sustain overwatch until the start of their next turn, at which point they will need to declare overwatch again to use it in the subsequent opponent’s turn.
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PostSubject: Re: Overwatch?   Mon 16 Feb 2015 - 15:00

Love the overwatch mechanic in other games, would be interesting to try it in this fashion in Mordheim.
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PostSubject: Re: Overwatch?   Tue 17 Feb 2015 - 2:33

It has been discussed before but it was on the old Specialist Games forum which is now defunct. There are a couple of threads on this forum. Here is one that I thought was quite interesting:

http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t3322-necromunda-vs-mordheim
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PostSubject: Re: Overwatch?   Tue 17 Feb 2015 - 3:35

I feel overwatch rules fit modern/futurist games better than old style games with bows/crossbows. Waiting with a machine gun to blast at running enemies seems more in line with overwatch than having a bow pulled at the ready, remaining vigilant to auto-fire a spray of arrows. But after seeing this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk

... I am ready to believe that overwatch is possible for archers. Perhaps it should be a shooting skill? That way your warband's Legolas at least had to earn his abilities and the overwatch rule is not in use by every Tomas, Dietrich, and Harman.
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PostSubject: Re: Overwatch?   Tue 17 Feb 2015 - 4:50

As a shooting skill I think it could be interesting but it can be difficult enough to approach a defensive position without having them shooting at you during your own turn as well.

Edit: Although a model going into overwatch wouldn't be able to shoot during its own turn, would it? Forfeiting that to have a reduced chance at hitting during the opponent's turn could make for some interesting plays.


Last edited by MasterSpark on Tue 17 Feb 2015 - 7:43; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Overwatch?   Tue 17 Feb 2015 - 7:36

I think it could be a fun and reasonable shooting skill. As a more general rule it'd make shooting warbands more powerful and more frustrating to play against. Running from terrain to terrain is an important check on shooting, and overwatch would reduce that quite a bit.
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PostSubject: Re: Overwatch?   Tue 17 Feb 2015 - 13:35

Thespian, after watching that video I'm ready to give that guy all my money along with a note asking him to pretty please not kill me. Just to be on the safe side.
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Lord 0
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PostSubject: Re: Overwatch?   Tue 17 Feb 2015 - 17:22

Just as a refresher, or for those that never played with them, here are the rules for overwatch.

1/ You may only go on overwatch at the start of your turn. If you move or shoot during your turn, you lose overwatch.

2/ You may not hide if you go on overwatch, but you may remain hidden if you were already on overwatch. There is a skill that lets you hide if you go on overwatch, but note that it only lets you hide if you go on overwatch. It does *not* let you go on overwatch if you hide. So no moving, then hiding, then claiming the skill lets you go on overwatch if you are hidden. A lot of people played that wrong and then wondered why the skill that let you *run* and then hide was so broken in combination with Ambush.

3/ There are extra shooting modifiers if you are on overwatch. -1 for an appearing/disappearing/charging target. In my group we played that all three of the modifiers stacked. You would almost certainly need to play that in Mordheim. With a few skills and terrain allowing it was possible to get overwatch shots down to -5 to -7 to hit.

4/ If you are hit at all you lose overwatch.

In my group we tried allowing overwatch for everyone, but Mordheim has very little to counter overwatch. In Necro it was easy - models could only shoot to the front 90 degrees, lots of terrain everywhere, you could get -2 for cover, smoke grenades and photovisors meant you could shoot them and they couldn't shoot you at all if you didn't have them. Long range aoe e.g. Frag grenade launchers/plasma cannons/flamers could all attack and possibly knock out multiple Overwatchers. Hell, even shotgun shells could sometimes get multiple people if they were close enough, and they were more often than they were in Mordheim because of the Pinning mechanic. Really, in Necromunda the only people that had real trouble with overwatch were the same sort of people that have trouble against slings in Mordheim i.e. people that don't know any better (we were all newbs once) and people that have trouble thinking much past "Graaaaah! Chaaaaaarge!" /rant. Oh yeah, and people that don't have enough terrain (it can happen to the best of us).

In Mordheim we found that with 360 degree shooting, no ranged aoe weapons, no heavy cover, etc it was a bit overpowering. We thought of making it a skill, but then we had to add all the overwatch rules to keep it under control. It was more hassle than it was worth.

That being said, Infinity has a mechanic that could be adopted. You could make it so that when you declared you were going on overwatch you would place an empty base somewhere on the table up to the maximum range of the weapon. The model on overwatch has to shoot at the first model that enters the space between themselves and the placed base marker. Possibly also allow them to stand and shoot if charged from outside the corridor.
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PostSubject: Re: Overwatch?   Tue 17 Feb 2015 - 18:16

Thespian wrote:
[...] But after seeing this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk

... I am ready to believe that overwatch is possible for archers. Perhaps it should be a shooting skill? That way your warband's Legolas at least had to earn his abilities and the overwatch rule is not in use by every Tomas, Dietrich, and Harman.

Saluksic wrote:
Thespian, after watching that video I'm ready to give that guy all my money along with a note asking him to pretty please not kill me. Just to be on the safe side.

Lars is a very good trick shooter; my roomate has worked with him and we've played LARP with him as well, but I believe an important point to be made in regards to his archery, is that it may be well suited for unarmoured infantry (or LARP players, who are wounded no matter how hard they get hit), but not against a warrior wearing Heavy Armour, or a Possessed with skin like a turtle shell. He may be able to shoot several arrows in a row, but they really wouldn't do much harm in the heat of battle, except perhaps at very close range.

If you want to see a critical angle towards his claims (because they do sound like he's invented a whole new form of archery), I'd suggest checking this out: A Response to Lars Andersen: a New Level of Archery.

Sorry if I'm crushing your dreams silent

And of course: It is a game with magic, mutations, raining fishe, etc., so we hardly need to be realistic all the time Wink
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Saluksic
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PostSubject: Re: Overwatch?   Tue 17 Feb 2015 - 23:16

Aipha, that was a great video. I still think trick shooting is great, but now my history is a little straighter.
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PostSubject: Re: Overwatch?   Wed 18 Feb 2015 - 1:38

Yeah thanks Aipha! A good reality check video. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Overwatch?   Today at 17:29

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