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Aipha
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PostSubject: Leap   Fri 28 Nov 2014 - 3:22

I have a few clarifying questions concerning Leap:

What is defined as a man-sized model? Humans are, but what about Skinks? They should be smaller, and what about Orcs? Should be a bit more difficult to jump over. I'd say models with human-sized bases to keep it simple, but what about the rest of you?

Can you leap over an intercepting warrior? I've read in this thread that you can, but does everyone agree here? I don't see why not, but my group is not too fond of it. And what if the intercepting warrior is standing RIGHT in front of the one you wish to charge? I'd say it would be hard to find a gap there at least.

Think that was about it for now Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Leap   Fri 28 Nov 2014 - 11:03

I'd go with "man-sized" is anything that isn't a large target (aka, no Ogres, Rat Ogres, mounted warriors, etc).

As far as intercepts, I'd go with the interpretation that since you can leap over models, they'll have a pretty hard time intercepting you (but only if you use the leap distance to do it)! If there is no room between the bases of the potential interceptor and the model you wish to charge it'd be a no-go then. You can't make a proper leap with no where to land your model. A fun little twist might be to say that a model with Leap can intercept another leaping model (or even a model charging with a flight spell)
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: Leap   Fri 28 Nov 2014 - 14:08

NoisyAssassin wrote:
I'd go with "man-sized" is anything that isn't a large target (aka, no Ogres, Rat Ogres, mounted warriors, etc).

Hrmm... Yeah well, suppose that's a way to look at it. It's just the 'man' that confuses, but yeah I suppose they're almost equal in height.

NoisyAssassin wrote:
As far as intercepts, I'd go with the interpretation that since you can leap over models, they'll have a pretty hard time intercepting you (but only if you use the leap distance to do it)! If there is no room between the bases of the potential interceptor and the model you wish to charge it'd be a no-go then. You can't make a proper leap with no where to land your model. A fun little twist might be to say that a model with Leap can intercept another leaping model (or even a model charging with a flight spell)

Well, my idea is that someone who wishes to intercept you, will be pretty darn determined, whereas someone in close combat would probably notice someone jumping over his head, but would be busy fighting. He might try to block the jumper from attacking him (hence why you should be able to leap behind someone in close combat), but not directly stop him. Imagine a warrior lifting his sword or axe up high, catching your leg. That'd look ugly and probably hurt. And would probably stop a jumper.
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PostSubject: Re: Leap   Fri 28 Nov 2014 - 15:09

IMO a man-sized warrior is on a 20mm base. Warriors on a 25mm base or 40mm base (or other large bases like mounts) are not considered man-sized.

I haven't come across the situation but I would not allow the warriors being leaped to intercept. Warriors along the charge route but not being leaped could intercept.

I agree that the leaping charging warrior needs somewhere to land. This all also applies the same for a warrior that is doing a diving charge. A house rule to allow interception from another warrior with leap sounds like a bit of fun.
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: Leap   Fri 28 Nov 2014 - 17:21

RationalLemming wrote:
IMO a man-sized warrior is on a 20mm base. Warriors on a 25mm base or 40mm base (or other large bases like mounts) are not considered man-sized.

That was my point as well. Tried to measure the figures and most are 1 inch high, whether on 20mm or 25mm base. Didn't measure Beastmen though, they're probably a bit taller. However, I found something interesting: There are only two places 'man-sized' are mentioned in the Core Rulebook. One of the places is of course the Leap skill, but the other is in the scenario 'Hidden Treasure', where it says:

Mordheim Rulebook p. 90 wrote:
place the treasure chest at the spot where he fell. Any man-sized model may pick it up by moving into base contact with it.

I suppose that this could just be 'a random usage of words', but I think we can all agree that this rule is supposed to exclude Large Targets as well as animals and mounted warriors, and not Beastmen, Orcs, Saurus, Possessed, etc.

RationalLemming wrote:
I haven't come across the situation but I would not allow the warriors being leaped to intercept. Warriors along the charge route but not being leaped could intercept.

I am not sure I understand this really Razz 'the warriors being leaped'? Sorry, might just be this hour.

RationalLemming wrote:
I agree that the leaping charging warrior needs somewhere to land. This all also applies the same for a warrior that is doing a diving charge. A house rule to allow interception from another warrior with leap sounds like a bit of fun.

Aye & aye! Very Happy
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Phantasmal_fiend
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PostSubject: Re: Leap   Fri 28 Nov 2014 - 19:09

Mordheim Rulebook wrote:
Leap. The warrior may leap D6" in the movement

phase in addition to his normal movement. He may

move and leap, run and leap, or charge and leap, but

he can only leap once per turn.

A leaping warrior may jump over opposing man-sized

models, including enemies, and obstacles 1" high,

without penalty.

The leap may also be used to leap over gaps, but in

this case you must commit the warrior to making the

leap before rolling the dice to see how far he jumps.

If he fails to make it all the way across, he falls

through the gap (see page 28).

I would assume the defender would be able to intercept so long as they are within the normal 2" stipulation of the leaping warrior.

I would not allow however an intercepting warrior to leap.

as for man sized warriors , men come in many different sizes there are some real fatties who put Orcs to shame and scrawny midgets that make goblins look buff, but an Ogre stands over 3 meters tall and almost as wide thus not being man sized

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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Leap   Fri 28 Nov 2014 - 20:41

Games Wokshop generally uses 'man' sized to refer to anything not mounted, Large or monstrous. They were a bit clearer with this in the days of 6th and 7th edition Warhammer.

We don't allow models that are leaped over to intercept since you are allowed to jump over them. (I know we allow squigs to be intercepted, sue me.)
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Lord 0
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PostSubject: Re: Leap   Sat 29 Nov 2014 - 7:35

In my group we don't allow models being leaped over to intercept. You do, however, have to have a place to land, and charging by the most direct path when you have leap generally means you will have to land right in front, so it is often not *too* hard to body-guard anyone particularly valuable.

TLDR: allowing leaping over intercepters and enforcing the 'you must charge by the most direct route' base rule means Leap adds a get gain of fun. And 'man-sized' is anything not large.
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: Leap   Sat 29 Nov 2014 - 8:19

Lord 0 wrote:
TLDR: allowing leaping over intercepters and enforcing the 'you must charge by the most direct route' base rule means Leap adds a get gain of fun. And 'man-sized' is anything not large.

First of all, I love that your TLDR was 1 line shorter than the other Razz

Aye. Well, it seems we have reached some sort of consensus that I for one is satisfied with! I'll see if I can persuade the rest of the group (usually can when refering to your smart guys in here Wink)

Thanks for the input everyone!
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Lord 0
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PostSubject: Re: Leap   Sat 29 Nov 2014 - 8:54

Aipha wrote:
First of all, I love that your TLDR was 1 line shorter than the other Razz
That is still a saving of 50%! You get even more bonus-points if your TLDR is longer.
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: Leap   Sat 29 Nov 2014 - 8:58

Lord 0 wrote:
Aipha wrote:
First of all, I love that your TLDR was 1 line shorter than the other Razz
That is still a saving of 50%! You get even more bonus-points if your TLDR is longer.

lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Leap   Today at 13:04

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