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 Question about Undead Warband

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Darthvegeta800
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PostSubject: Question about Undead Warband   Tue 19 Aug 2014 - 11:48

Is there even a need for me to invest in Skeletons/Wolves?
I got 10 Grave Guard I plan to use as Ghouls. If i get a leader, a Necro and 3 thralls... that should make 15 guys more than enough to field maximally.
So is there a reason for me to purchase/use the zombies/wolves?
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Major Sharpe
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Tue 19 Aug 2014 - 12:45

Not if you don't want to. IIRC there's actually a limit on how many ghouls you can hire. Six?

In any case, zombies mostly exist for early warbands and synergy with the necromancer + zombified enemy heroes.

Dire wolves are surprisingly useful. While you may be wary of their high cost and locked statline they're very very fast. This is important because having an 18" charge range means your opponent has to cluster his models. You can lock out early game objective rushes and keep those pesky archers from advancing towards better vantage points. Just as important, wolves can keep pace with your vamp so he doesn't have to range out alone.
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Darthvegeta800
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Tue 19 Aug 2014 - 13:02

*nods* I thought you could take unlimited Ghouls and Zombies. At least in the pdf i found.
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Tue 19 Aug 2014 - 13:49

Huh, I had thought that Ghouls were limited to 5, but looks like you can have as many as you please. While they can level up, their lack of equipment hurts them, so once you have all your hero slots filled in I'd look to wolves. The 18" charge range is really brutal, and 2 S4 attacks each mean that with a combo charge of 2 of them you'll be able to take out most enemies. They're expensive, but worthwhile. You don't need them for a reasonable warband though, so don't feel like you *have* to go buy more models for the Undead to work.
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Tue 19 Aug 2014 - 14:00

There is no limit on ghouls per se, but the maximum size of the warband is 15. So if you have the required vampire and take the other four starting heroes (and you always take all the starting heroes) you could have up to 10 ghouls in the band.

Generally I don't take anything or anybody that cannot earn experience for any warband I am creating. However, I sometimes take a dire wolf - as Maj. Sharpe observes, he is very effective and he can escort the vampire as he roars around the board. In most of my Undead Warband builds, though, I take the five heroes and as many ghouls as I can afford. Ghouls are the only henchmen in the warband that can earn experience and improve over time, and with T4 they are not easy for the enemy to deal with. A ghoul hero, once you hit "The Lad's Got Talent" on a promotion roll, can be extremely effective.
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Darthvegeta800
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Tue 19 Aug 2014 - 14:09

Hmmm so if i were to take a Death Knight (counts as Vampire), 1 Necro, 3 Warriors (thralls) and my 10 Crypt Guards... i'd effectively have a fully slotted warband?
15 guys.
Plus i keep 5 reg skellies asside to fill up slots or god knows what.

Good plan?
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Tue 19 Aug 2014 - 14:49

Should be an effective warband. Although can you afford all of those ghouls (crypt guards) starting out without your heroes being buck nekkid?
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Tue 19 Aug 2014 - 20:00

Wolves are your strongest henchies. They're fast, strong, and cheap. You don't care if they get killed, they have no need for equipment, they're the perfect fodder.
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Phantasmal_fiend
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Wed 20 Aug 2014 - 18:50

Direwolves are hardly cheap at 50gp per wolf, replacing a killed wolf really hurts the pocket.

Darthvegeta800 you can't afford that 10 ghouls + vampire + necromancer + 3 thralls with no equipment comes to 605 gold crowns that 105 over the starting amount and you may want to buy something better than a dagger for the vampire the rest are fine with just daggers thou i would buy the thralls clubs or axes too.
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Thu 21 Aug 2014 - 9:06

Oh right, Dire Wolves. Nevermind. Yeah, they're a bit rough to lose.
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Darthvegeta800
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Thu 21 Aug 2014 - 10:04

Wink didn't mean to say buy all that at the start.
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Thu 21 Aug 2014 - 17:05

We were worried about your math skills for a minute there!

As they evolve, my undead warbands are indeed the vampire, the necromancer, the three halflings dregs and a bunch o'ghouls. Even on those occasions when I have hired a dire wolf to keep Vampy company, I don't replace the big puppy when someone finally scrags him.

What is the name for a mob of ghouls? A ravage of ghouls? A claw of ghouls? A lunch club of ghouls?
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Saluksic
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Thu 21 Aug 2014 - 18:07

I want to say "a rave of ghouls". Or "a discussion of ghouls", if you lean more towards irony.
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Lord 0
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Thu 21 Aug 2014 - 20:43

I think it might be a 'devouring'.
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Thu 21 Aug 2014 - 21:19

Some general advice:

-Make sure your vamp is well-kitted from the start. Your warband really lives or dies on his ability to survive and level, so heavy armor and helmet are a must. I would also suggest a bow. He'll never be a great missile character, but the ability to take BS4+ potshots shouldn't be ignored. That single-shot 24" arrow can be pumped quite a bit by poison and hunting arrows as well, so don't count it out.

-Split your starting ghouls into henchmen groups of no more than 2. This will allow you to add ghouls to the groups that roll good advances and allow the groups with bad advances to die out. Because there's nothing worse than sticking five models in a henchman group and watching them all roll leadership.
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Thu 21 Aug 2014 - 21:47

I agree about the bow - good investment. Ditto the heavy armor. But I don't think the helmet helps, since he cannot be stunned anyway. In the entire warband, only the ghouls can be stunned.

I usually start henchmen as individuals, for the reasons the Major gives. Nobody gets cloned until they have earned it.
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Thu 21 Aug 2014 - 23:20

The helmet helps if you have the skill 'Jump Up'. You are right that a vanilla vampire doesn't get any benefit from a helmet, but if he has Jump Up then if he gets stunned and the helmet converts it to Knocked Down then he can still ignore the knocked down result with Jump Up.

That being said, I am not sure any more if the Stunned to Knocked Down doesn't count for Jump Up if it is via Feel No Pain is a house rule or if it was FAQed into being.
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Fri 22 Aug 2014 - 5:30

It is in the rules revision (the last one GW released, alas):

Page 123, Jump Up
Replace the last sentence with:
“The warrior may ignore knocked down results when rolling for injuries, unless he is knocked down because of a successful save from wearing a helmet or because he has the No Pain special rule.”

So it looks like Jump Up no longer benefits the vampire at all.
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Fri 22 Aug 2014 - 18:26

Um, he's a vampire he can not be stunned. See the rule No Pain.
~Helmet useless.
~Jump Up is certainly not a must choose skill anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Undead Warband   Today at 3:43

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