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Darthvegeta800
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PostSubject: Some advice on a warband   Wed 13 Aug 2014 - 12:10

After my Norse (almost finished) I'm thinking of moving out to a second warband.
However i'd like to somewhat limit the shipping cost and get all the models from a single place:

Undead army:

I already have old Metal Grave Guard from GW - a box of 10.
Would they make acceptable Ghouls or too different? Also how well do they scale with Grenadier models (see next website hyperlink)

-> I was also thinking of getting from this website:
http://miniature-heroes.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=462_463_482

Berlus The Damned as a sort of 'Death Knight' proxy for the Vampire.

Necromancer from the line, skellies for the ghouls, the zombies for the zombies? And the hounds from the chaos line:
http://miniature-heroes.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=462_463_466&products_id=20483
For the wolves.

Good idea? Or do you think another manufacturer would be better?


-------------

Reikland or Bretonnia:

I've been told Bretonnia scuks but i do love their background. Not sure about who to pick but i already have 2 'Emperor's Champions' from the Fantasy Warriors line -> 2 knights, one with 2-H hammer and one with a 2-H axe. + 4 Fantasy Warriors (Grenadier) Billmen/men at arms with 2 handed weapons. (sort of halberds i believe)

So i was thinking of perhaps buffing it up with this line:
http://miniature-heroes.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=462_463_476

After all they're out of it.

Any ideas on what to go for? Reikland or Bretonnia with this line?
Is it even worth considering Bretonnia?
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Wed 13 Aug 2014 - 16:59

As long as you enjoy the models I am all for "counts as" proxies. Skeletons for ghouls would work well if it fits your theme. Which goes hand in hand with your Bretonnian question. I love the look and lore of Bretonnians but have never been very excited about their rules. I am thinking of just using mercenary rules with Bretonnian models next campaign.
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Wed 13 Aug 2014 - 17:07

Thanks for the pointers. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Wed 13 Aug 2014 - 18:39

I guess it depends on the guys you play with. If they are cool with what you put on the table, then that's it. I have so many vampires in my collection that its always a hard choice as to which one gets to play.

The same goes for Reikland vs Brettonia. Also which Brettonian warband were you considering?

Otherwise, no Brettonia isn't worth considering.  clown 

I would not recommend any Brettonian warband to a new player because most if not all require mounted models, which ought to require mounted rules, which Mordheim isn't very good at.
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Thu 14 Aug 2014 - 2:41

What do you mean 'requires mounted models' most i saw from Bretonnian armylists fields the Brets on foot. With perhaps the possibility of working slowly towards a single mounted Bret.

And yes the fb i see regarding them seems depressingly bad... which is a shame as they do seem great fun fluff-wise.
Middenheim I presume would once more be the ideal alternative?
A shame though that armor is so difficult to get.


For Reikland. I take it i'd best max out the archers as soon as possible to (ab)use the bonus on shooting? (get 5 archers and 2 crossbowmen for instance) Max out on all the heroes. And thus end up pretty much with the maximum amount a warband can have?

A Middenheim one i presume would be best served maxing out the Swordmen and heroes with a few archers?
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Thu 14 Aug 2014 - 20:43

I asked which Bretonnian warband you were considering. Although you did not answer directly, you apparently are considering one of the ones that doesn't require mounted models.  Very Happy 

I may also be in error with my statement that most require mounted warriors. I have seen several fan created warbands in the last decade but I should know better than making broad statements about a type of warband I have never really been interested in.  Embarassed 

The players who have fielded Bretonnian warbands in our group have never finished a campaign with them, so I don't have a good impression.

Quote :
Middenheim I presume would once more be the ideal alternative?
Yes. But if your choice is between Bretonnia and Reikland, I would chose Reikland.

If you are drawn to a warband because of the fluff, I think that is a great reason to play them. I thought you were making a choice between Reiklanders and Bretonnians, in which case I would play Reiklanders.

If you would rather play Bretonnians because of reasons beyond the relative strengths of the warbands then by all means play Bretonnians. Or as someone suggested use the rules for a mercenary warband (Middenheimers) and call them Bretonnians.

Quote :
For Reikland. I take it i'd best max out the archers as soon as possible to (ab)use the bonus on shooting? (get 5 archers and 2 crossbowmen for instance) Max out on all the heroes. And thus end up pretty much with the maximum amount a warband can have?
Yes.

Quote :
A Middenheim one i presume would be best served maxing out the Swordmen and heroes with a few archers?
Yes. Although I tend to try to promote an archer to get one heroic shooter to give the warband some covering fire as they advance.
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 1:21

Thanks for the info. Smile come oktober. I'm going to get some Empire militia and archers and get to work kitbashing a 2nd warband.
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 7:03

The Bretonnian warband rules from GW produced a rather weak warband, and one that really did not encourage mounted heroes at all - so it was also out of character, in my opinion.

There have been some attempts to produce more playable/characterful rules for Bretonnians on this forum, so you might go looking for them. My attempt was called "the Knight's Retinue", and in my first post I linked to a couple of other threads with other alternative rules.

I still quite like my approach - although I have still never field tested them so I can't say whether I struck the right balance in terms of power.
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 7:07

Interesting.
It is nigh impossible but secretly i still hope for a rerelease of some of the old specialist games.
Even if only 'limited' like Space Hulk.
Some finetuning of the rules and perhaps balance updates based on community feedback.
Sorta like Blood Bowl having grown well beyond what it once was.
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 8:24

There were rumors of a re-released BloodBowl for a time... but it has never materialized.

Currently there seem to be fairly strong (or at least persistent) rumors that 9th Edition Warhammer may contain a strong skirmish component, which if true might encourage GW to revisit Mordheim.

It has always seemed to me that what GW should do with WH is start with rules for skirmish (as Mordheim and the WH Skirmish book from a few years back), and contain rules for "scaling up" from there to small units/forces, then to medium-sized units/armies, then to large units/armies, then to really big forces. But I am not holding my breath.

Incidentally, if you don't have the WH Skirmish book, it is worth keeping an eye out for - some nice scenarios and they work pretty well with Mordheim rules. I don't think second-hand copies are particularly expensive.
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 8:33

Never heard of that. Thanks for the info.

Also cute monkey :p




Made a first trial list. Not sure what to do with the XP.
Also are javelins/throwing axes (daggers) good?


HEROES:

1) Jarl (has 20XP)

Cost 70 GC
Sword 10GC
Free Dagger
Shield 5 GC

total 85 GC

2) Ulfwerenar (has 11XP)

Cost 90 GC
May not wear equipment

total 90 GC


3) Berserker 1 (has 11XP)

50 GC
Double Handed weapon 15 GC
-> hoping to use str/frenzy
Free Dagger
Can't wear armor

Total: 65 GC

3) Berserker 2 (has 11XP)

50 GC
Double Handed weapon 15 GC
-> hoping to use str/frenzy
Free Dagger
Can't wear armor

Total: 65 GC

5) Bondsman 1 (has 0XP)

15 GC
Sword 10 GC
Free Dagger

Total: 25 GC

5) Bondsman 2 (has 0XP)

15 GC
Sword 10 GC
Free Dagger


Total: 25 GC


Total heroes: 355

-------

HENCHMEN:

Hunter 1

25 GC
Bow 10 GC
Free Dagger


Total 35

Hunter 2

25 GC
Bow 10 GC
Free Dagger


Total 35


Marauder 1

25 GC
Shield 5GC
Axe 5GC

Total 35 GC

Marauder 2

25 GC
Shield 5GC
Axe 5GC

Total 35 GC

Henchmen total 140


FINAL WARBAND TOTAL 495 GC (5GC remaining)



Last edited by Darthvegeta800 on Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 10:14; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 9:06

I am not very familiar with this warband, so I can't offer too much in the way of a critique. However, I think I would be tempted to drop the helmets and hire another hunter or marauder. A nine-person warband has to lose three models before hitting the critical 25%+ casualties point, where an eight-model warband is there after two casualties. Also, that is one more chance for a "the Lad's Got Talent" promotion after the second game.

On the other hand, helmets can be danged useful.
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 10:15

Interesting. And yes never played the game but the helmets immediately stood out as super good for their price.
Updated the list a bit.
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 10:49

Well, they are good and I suspect I under-utilize them. But I generally tend to try to wedge in the extra henchman where I can when starting out, since numbers are important in Mordheim and I always thirst after that promoted henchman.
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 11:01

I maxed out heroes though. So a new hero can't join them.
Then again knowing my luck. Might loose one early Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 11:51

You maxed the starting heroes, but the maximum number for all warbands is six. The sixth one has to be a promoted henchman.

When your henchmen roll for an improvement (first time is when they have two experience points, which usually means after two games) one of the improvements they can roll is "The Lad's Got Talent", which means that the henchman is now a hero of the appropriate type. So, in this case a hunter hero or a marauder hero. You can choose two groups of skills the hero can draw from in the future (Combat, Shooting, etc.) from the skill groups that at least one of your other heroes can use. Then you roll again for their first improvement as a hero, using the hero table. From the point that the henchman becomes a hero, he will earn experience and improvement rolls just like the other heroes.

Often, esp. if you hit a promotion for a henchman at 2 experience, that new hero will be one of your best.

Since six is the maximum, if you have your five starting heroes, roll high enough to "promote" a henchman to hero, and then do it again for another henchman, you have to make a choice: keep the new henchman and sack one of your existing heroes, or ignore the promotion result and roll again for the henchman?
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 11:55

Thanks for the info that 6th guy wasn't clear to me.
Good to know.

As for the starting XP. I can use that to roll some skills pre game or those are just 'ballast' there to make it harder for these chars to level?
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 12:27

The latter.

That is really the reason the promoted heroes tend to be so good. They generally have better starting stats than a youngblood/youth/etc., but will earn lots more improvement rolls as the game progresses than the captains and champion types who started with experience already. The experience progression is not level. If you start at zero, you earn improvement rolls at 2, 4, 6, and 8. But then it is every three experience points (11, 14, 17, 20), and then every four (24, etc). It becomes even steeper later.
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 12:34

Thought as much. Thank you for clearing that up.
Glad i got you guys to clear these things up.
I'm gming the campaign and we don't have an established playerbase so i'm scared i'll probably do a lot of stuff wrong. >_<;
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 12:48

Consider replacing one of your Bondsmen with a promoted Marauder - he will make a better sniper for covering fire with Shooting and Speed skills.

In my group we use the interpretation that allows TLGT heroes of a warband to use their racial skill table in *addition* to their two chosen ones so if you don't mind playing RAW this could add fun for your group. I have mostly played against warbands taking advantage of this, and it doesn't really detract from the fun at all. Orc heroes are more orcy, dwarf heroes are more dwarfy, so I would imagine norse heroes would be more norsey.
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 12:51

I know we made some mistakes starting out; I imagine everyone does. This forum has some very nice and helpful folks on it, so don't be shy with questions - or suggestions.

I think the single most common starting mistake concerns attacks on Knocked Down and Stunned models. There are some special rules for attacking these poor guys in melee; I think a lot of us made the starting mistake of applying the same rules to attacking Knocked Down or Stunned models with missile fire - but the special rules are only for melee. Shooting them is just like normal.
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 13:08

Good to know i'll try to remember Smile
Next saturday (not tomorrow) gonna do a little demogame with one or more fellow players to get to grasp with the system.
Should hopefully have the bases flocked of my Norse. (30-40 fellows lol - so i'l lhave ample pickings for the warband Smile )

Also you said 6 heroes... but I already took 6? So max i can take is 5? As you stated the 6th had to be a promoted henchman...

Also is it best to group your henchmen or keep them seperate? Also can you add people to a 'group'?
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 14:23

I tend to keep mine separate at first, and then "clone" the ones who roll the better improvements. Also, keeping them as separate "groups" initially increases your chances of rolling the 10+ for a promotion. All of which is gaming the system a bit, I suppose, but I name everybody and track their accomplishments, so generally I see them all as individuals anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 14:27

Hmm so you can add weaker newbies to a group that developped a skill?
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PostSubject: Re: Some advice on a warband   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 15:08

You can. They are more expensive, but it can be done.

Before you purchase a new guy after a game you need to roll 2d6. You are allowed to purchase a maximum of that many xp points when buying henchmen. You don't have to purchase all of them, but any unpurchased are lost. When you purchase a henchman you need to pay an extra 2 gold per xp point you are buying them. Also, you can only purchase xp for a henchman when adding it to an existing group - you can't just buy xp for them.
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