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Darthvegeta800
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PostSubject: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Wed 13 Aug 2014 - 11:04

Hope i'm posting in the right section here.
I'm new to the game and started a Mordheim league that should kick of start of october.
My first warband will be Norse (mostly using Dunlendings and Rohan heroes) as i got a large army of those underway for generic skirmish gaming.

Any hints and tips regarding them. Some stuff you'd advice.
Given their equipment i'm probably going to give the Dunlending Warriors shield, axe and helmet but no armor (pricey)
I'll bring the leader naturally (shield, helmet, sword, light armor perhaps?)
Pick up the 2 champions and the bondsmen.
But leave the big were fellow out?

Am I correct that the Norse are a mass army? Lotsa bodies with a few toughies following behind?

----

Also any points on expanding and priorities and newbie things to watch out for?


----

When it comes to campaigns. As i'll be the gm and setting things up and keeping track.
Any advice?
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Wed 13 Aug 2014 - 17:02

From our campaign we have a Norse player, His Ulfwerenar is a monster truly one to be feared. If i was making a warband he would definitely be in my starting line up. he sticks him in a pack of wolfs which works well due to speed and acting as a meat shield for his hero. The fact that the wolfs can run 18" makes them awesome and Wolfs are so cheap at 15 gp.
He did not start with any bondsmen instead hoping for his hunters and marauders getting TLGT this was done by putting his henchmen in their own henchmen groups rather than a group.
Once his warband was established he got a berserker hooked on crimson shade and would feed his Ulfwerenar mad cap mushrooms this made his heroes very good in close combat.
For hired swords he picked ones like the human scout and kislev ranger to supplement range and stuck them with his hunters and a hero or two hiding behind them in case they get charged and flanked with his wolf pack.
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Wed 13 Aug 2014 - 17:06

Only thing i don't have and won't have are wolves. I have models for all other troop types. But no wolves. And if possible i'd like to avoid em.
Some good tips though. I'm reconsidering using the wolfguy from the start.
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Wed 13 Aug 2014 - 18:51

Not using the Wulfen would be an error. He is your monster close combat guy and a hero. Mordheim runs on heroes. Leaving one out for any reason is going to make your warband weaker, both during a game and in the post game.

Not having wolves is your choice, but if not, why run Norse? Why not call your Rohan and Dunlendings Middenheimers? Or Stirland Outlaws?
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Thu 14 Aug 2014 - 2:37

You believe Middenheim would be better to emulate a viking warband?
It's worth considering... *rubs chin*

Norse do have some nice 'stereotypical' things though. Like frenzy, throwing axes etc.
Middenheimers do have the same +1 STR bonus though they do have access to some very 'Un-Norse' things. On the other hand i have some swordwielding Rohan heroes that would make nice swordfighters.

What is the big + for the Middenheimers in your opinion Von Kurst?
And what is the big + for the Norse list?

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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Thu 14 Aug 2014 - 21:00

I was just suggesting a warband that could fit with your existing models.  If the viking image is the draw of the warband for you, then the Norse list would likely be better.  The wulfen is a definite plus.

Middenhiemers have a strong close combat warband with decent support from shooting, an elite henchman (swordsmen) and broad access to hired swords.

The Norse warband has a stronger close combat warband with less missile support.  The question of which hired swords a Norse warband may use was ignored by the original author(s).  The warband was re-published by Border Town Burning but I don't have a copy of that warband, so I don't know if they touched that issue or not.
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Fri 15 Aug 2014 - 1:19

I don't think they did.
Also shouldn't my army list mention 'buy in groups of 1-5'?

I noticed the champion is drastically pricier on the Norse list just due to a bit more xp and frenzy yet he cannot take as much equipment. A bit odd.
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Tue 19 Aug 2014 - 20:08

With rare exception, always take your maximum number of heroes. Also, wolves are your strongest henchmen starting out with a Norse warband. Up to you to take them or not.

Also, armor, outside of Cold Metal and Dark Steel, is a waste of time. You can easily find it for free, and a ton of things in the game negate armor bonuses or eliminate armor completely. Sword/Club for all your heroes (except Wulfen) and Dagger/Club for Henchies until you can upgrade them to Sword/Club.
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Tue 19 Aug 2014 - 20:58

I'm curious, Mr. DancyPants, with which warbands do you not take all of the starting heroes? I always do. But then, I have not played all of the warbands.

I did see a friend once run a Cult of the Possessed warband where he only started with three heroes, the Magister and two super-mutated possessed. But in Game 1 one of my Reiklander marksmen dropped it with a critical hit from max range, and it turned up dead in the post game Serious Injury phase, so none of us were ever inspired to try that particular approach again...
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Wed 20 Aug 2014 - 7:55

The only warbands where I would not take max heroes is Orcs ,Wood Elves, and Nuln Engineers. Originally, Orcs only had 4 heroes, and the pricing was balanced around that. If you want to take a Troll with your starting Orcs, then you can't actually afford the new 3rd Big 'un that is allowed in the updated rules. With the 4 Orc heroes, 3 get bows, the 4th is your Shaman. That leaves enough gold for a Troll, a Boy with a bow, and a goblin with a bow. Let the gobbo, the boy, and the Troll take the hits, keep your heroes alive and you'll have enough gold from your first game to buy your 5th hero.

Woodelves and Nuln Engineers both have useless 0-4 durdle heroes that have worse stats than your henchmen. A better strategy for those kinds of warbands would be to take 5 heroes and then take several henchmen in groups of 1 to get Lad's Got Talent and then have those henchmen as your 6th Hero.
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Wed 20 Aug 2014 - 9:10

I see your logic about the troll vs 5th orc hero.

Not played the Nuln engineers. The (fan made) woodies I am familiar with only had powerful heroes. Indeed, that was one of its major flaws.

Thanks for the response!
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Wed 20 Aug 2014 - 9:44

I usually never start with one of my Slayers in a Dwarf Treasure Hunters Warband. Then I start with my Noble, Engineer, Slayer and a Clansman. Rarely take the Crossbow for the Engineer either, but rather some Dwarf Axes and two Gromril Armour, which I put on my Noble, but not Engineer (since my Noble cannot be rebought, but my Engineer can). The Clansman is usually without equipment and goes out to die (Slayer aspirant!)

Usually this game is an underdog game, so I might get lucky and get lad's. Nevertheless, I can usually afford a Slayer by then, my Clansman hopefully survived, and I get another one. Else I might even skip the Slayer this time and do the same trick again. Next step is 2 Clansmen, 4 Heroes and then just Clansmen until you get that Hero. Engineer gets a Crossbow when he gains Quick Shot, else I go Ressource Hunter with him and buy a lot of Tarot Cards and/or Wyrdstone Pendulums.

But in general I agree with taking all Heroes to begin with. But I might skip the Beastmaster in a Druchii warband as well, to get some more Repeater Crossbows & Sea Dragon Cloaks.
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Wed 20 Aug 2014 - 14:47

MrDancyPants wrote:
Originally, Orcs only had 4 heroes, and the pricing was balanced around that. If you want to take a Troll with your starting Orcs, then you can't actually afford the new 3rd Big 'un that is allowed in the updated rules.
I don't know what rules you are using but the official rules for the Orcs & Goblins warband still only has four starting heroes. Wood Elves are unofficial / fan made as are Nuln Engineers and I'm not familiar with either warband.
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Thu 21 Aug 2014 - 9:04

My LGS community uses the DeDS compiled and updated rules, which include a 3rd Big 'Un for Orcs.
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Thu 21 Aug 2014 - 14:46

I don't know what the DeDS rules are. I hope they are good and don't cause you trouble.
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Thu 21 Aug 2014 - 16:50

The DeDS rules are a compilation of original material, original material as modified by fans (the orcs receiving a third big 'un is an example) and completely fan-made material.
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Thu 21 Aug 2014 - 21:22

mweaver wrote:
The DeDS rules are a compilation of original material, original material as modified by fans (the orcs receiving a third big 'un is an example) and completely fan-made material.
Ugh. It sounds like the Mordheim rulebook that has caused quite a bit of confusion over the last couple of years since it adds house rules without highlighting what is official and what is fan-made. Sad Thanks for clarifying.
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Thu 21 Aug 2014 - 21:55

Yeah. However, the ruleset itself is quite balanced (or at least, everyone is broken equally), and allows for all manner of warbands. The one issue I had with the original Mordheim rules is that it was extremely limiting in what it allowed. The one elven warband was broken beyond belief, Orcs were unreasonably hamstringed, and it was very difficult to build a warband with any variance.

I agree, though, that it would be nice if the DeDS rules would highlight the fan-made warbands and skills.
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Fri 22 Aug 2014 - 17:07

@Micheal Weaver--do you know what DeDS stands for? (And when did that rule set start being called that?)  I was blissfully unaware of the DeDS designation just a few days ago.

@Mr.DancyPants--Please don't refer to fan-made rules as 'updated rules'.  It implies a level of official-ness that that rule set does not deserve.  I am glad that those rules work for someone, but they are neither 'official' nor broadly used.  This sub forum as several threads which started as questions or complaints regarding the rule set, most started by players who assumed them to be the 'new' official rules.


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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Fri 22 Aug 2014 - 17:17

Love the ruleset and am preparing a campaign, already have a lot of players. And been working on some story based scenarios...
But my god is the sourcematerial a confusing mess. With writes, rewrites, fanstuff, rewritten fanstuff, fan variants etc.
Urgh... maddening.
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Fri 22 Aug 2014 - 19:42

I think that reference comes from the URL address. It is hosted by "de Digitale Stad Amsterdam" (the digital city of Amsterdam or digital Amsterdam?).

It does bother me that this rulebook presents itself as if it were an official update, which it is very much not. Although whoever did it lavished a lot of love on the project.
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Fri 22 Aug 2014 - 19:43

Is GW's official updated rulebook no longer available on the web?


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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Fri 22 Aug 2014 - 20:37

Its available on several hosting sites but I get nothing from specialist games.  I do notice that the DeDS thingy is now the first hit in a Google search for Mordheim rules.  Who knew?

I think the URL address must change whenever they switch hosts for the giant rule book.  Whoever they are... Suspect

Darthvegeta800 wrote:

But my god is the sourcematerial a confusing mess. With writes, rewrites, fanstuff, rewritten fanstuff, fan variants etc.
Urgh... maddening.

I try to limit what is in use for a campaign by having a list of hired swords, special rules, etc that are for the campaign only. This means that we just don't use some rules, etc in some campaigns. Or that we never use some rules,warbands or hired swords.
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PostSubject: Re: Tips for Norse and campaigns   Fri 22 Aug 2014 - 22:58

Von Kurst wrote:
@Micheal Weaver--do you know what DeDS stands for?
@Mr.DancyPants--Please don't refer to fan-made rules as 'updated rules'.  It implies a level of official-ness that that rule set does not deserve.  I am glad that those rules work for someone, but they are neither 'official' nor broadly used.  This sub forum as several threads which started as questions or complaints regarding the rule set, most started by players who assumed them to be the 'new' official rules.

Ok, wow. Calm thyself. Holy crap. I promise, I'll never make such a transgression again. Do you know of another resource that has all the "officially official" rules in one document?

I'm terribly sorry that the rule set that's number one on the google machine is such a horrible piece of garbage that it's caused civil unrest amongst the bored.

Please, Lord Von Kurst, educate this poor sad fool that he may never upset you again.
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PostSubject: added one word for clarity   Sat 23 Aug 2014 - 6:17

It isn't that this rulebook is a "horrible piece of garbage" per se, or that anyone is sneering at fan-made rules (which almost every group that plays for awhile evolves, according to their taste).  But on a site that draws Mordheim fans from all over the world together to discuss the game, it is good to know when you are discussing official rules and when you are discussing fan-made modifications. This particular document, whether the author intended it or not, is often taken by people just discovering the game as the official updated rules because of how it identifies itself.  As such, in the past it has led to a fair amount of confusion on discussion threads, which is the point both RationalLemming and Von Kurst were making. Von Kurst was just suggesting you should be aware that this rulebook is not official and, if using it as a reference to ask or answer a question, to make sure you identified that you were using an unofficial ruleset.
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