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Seikilos
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PostSubject: Alternate parry rules   Sun 30 Mar 2014 - 2:47

Hi,

I always read, the original parry rule isn't very good.

There are several house rules, altering that parry rule to be better (balanced), but I'm not sure, which would be the most balanced one.


At the moment we play, that the parrying model can force the attacker to reroll a attack, which normally had hit.

But with this parry rule, the hand-to-hand-combats really, really last long, because most attacks are parried and the game is like stuck.

Another option I thought of: A parry gives a plain 5+ save, before trying to wound. With sword and buckler: Two parries. (Should think of: Two parries general or maximum two parries, when opponent has minimum two attacks?)

With the dwarf special rule (master of the blades) and dwarf axes, this could be two 5+ saves, which can be rerolled.


What do you think? What are your parry rules?


When we got a conclusion here, eventually this thread could get pinned?



Best regards,
Seikilos
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Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate parry rules   Sun 30 Mar 2014 - 3:37

The re-roll hits rule seems very powerful, I like the 5+ save more.

We play with the regular parry rules, but if you have more WS than the attacker, you get a +1 to the die roll. Being the better warrior and such.
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate parry rules   Sun 30 Mar 2014 - 3:52

Ork wrote:
We play with the regular parry rules, but if you have more WS than the attacker, you get a +1 to the die roll. Being the better warrior and such.

Can you then 'roll a 7'?

Our parry rules are the following:

  • You may choose which attack to parry during a close combat phase.
  • You may re-roll the parry attempt if armed with a Sword and another Sword or a Buckler.
  • Master of Blades is two flat 5+ parries, which can be re-rolled.

The consequences: Everyone takes Swords/Dwarf Axes on Heroes and uses Spear/Buckler on henchmen with access to Heavy Armour or Javelins.

The flat 5+ would be a possibility as well, still making Master of Blades good, since you gain an extra parry.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate parry rules   Sun 30 Mar 2014 - 11:25

We are considering the parry roll + WS vs. the to hit roll + WS. If the combined score of the parry roll is greater than the combined score of the attack roll, the parry succeeds. Anyone have any negative experience with this house rule?
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Seikilos
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate parry rules   Sun 30 Mar 2014 - 12:01

Thanks for your responses so far.

Another question occured to me, which kind of concerns the parries, too.


When a model has more than one attack with different weapons (for example hammer and sword) do they attack at the same time or does the attacker choose the order?

For example with Aiphas rule to choose, which attack to parry. We played, that the first attack is resolved (and this is the one being parried) and then the second one...


All written above seem to be good rules, still don't know, which would be the most balanced.
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Skavenslayer
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate parry rules   Sun 30 Mar 2014 - 16:52

Thespian wrote:
We are considering the parry roll + WS vs. the to hit roll + WS. If the combined score of the parry roll is greater than the combined score of the attack roll, the parry succeeds. Anyone have any negative experience with this house rule?

This is how we play and it works great. Still parry highest to-hit and still no parry on a 6, but we are considering to change that, just dont know how yet.

Master of Blades gives +1 and allow to parry a 6.

-Skavenslayer
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate parry rules   Sun 30 Mar 2014 - 16:58

Aipha wrote:
Ork wrote:
We play with the regular parry rules, but if you have more WS than the attacker, you get a +1 to the die roll. Being the better warrior and such.

Can you then 'roll a 7'?

Yes, it gives the martial master elf a chance to parry attacks from a lowly youngblood with a dagger. Even if the youngblood is lucky and rolls a six.
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Alex
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate parry rules   Mon 31 Mar 2014 - 0:03

to be honest I'm a bit confused by the issue. I've always played using the original parry rule. What seems to be the problem with the rule? Could someone please explain to me why it needs to be changed.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate parry rules   Mon 31 Mar 2014 - 0:42

Hei Alex,

Nothing is wrong with the original rule per se, but the parry is not very effective. Why spend 10 GC on a sword when at 5 GC you get armour penetration with an axe? Why buy a buckler at all when wielding two weapons is far more effective? This may not be an issue for many players, that's great! I am one of those who is frustrated at the fact that Mordheim offers a host of different weapons, most of which never get used because they are not worth it. Why list them at all? Increasing the effectiveness of parries is one way of trying to balance the weapon list. It does open up it's own can of worms and can imbalance things if one is not careful, but this is an interesting exercise in and of itself for those of us who are like coming up with a better mousetrap so to speak.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate parry rules   Mon 31 Mar 2014 - 0:56

Hei Thespian,

Since I'm a modeler first and foremost I'm more interested in creating interesting miniatures to play with. If that means they are armed with more or less useful equipment then so be it.

The one thing to remember when rewriting rules is to see to the whole. Mordheim may not be the most perfect game but it is far from broken, changing part of the rules may however cause it to fall over...

Where in Helsinki are you based by the way?
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate parry rules   Mon 31 Mar 2014 - 1:02

Alex wrote:
Since I'm a modeller first and foremost I'm more interested in creating interesting miniatures to play with. If that means they are armed with more or less useful equipment then so be it.

That's great! Have you posted any pictures in modelling section?

Alex wrote:
The one thing to remember when rewriting rules is to see to the whole. Mordheim may not be the most perfect game but it is far from broken, changing part of the rules may however cause it to fall over...

Certainly. This is why play testing is very, very necessary. But just as you are a tinkerer with lead and pewter, I am a tinkerer with game rules. It's a fun exercise for me and that's why I do it.

Alex wrote:
Where in Helsinki are you based by the way?

Kulosaari. PM me if you are looking for a gaming group.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate parry rules   Mon 31 Mar 2014 - 1:17

Thespian wrote:
That's great! Have you posted any pictures in modelling section?

Yep check out the gallery section as well as the modelling section for more recent work

Thespian wrote:
Certainly. This is why play testing is very, very necessary. But just as you are a tinkerer with lead and pewter, I am a tinkerer with game rules. It's a fun exercise for me and that's why I do it.

Then by all means go for it Smile

Thespian wrote:
Kulosaari. PM me if you are looking for a gaming group.

PM on the way
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