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 Tactic to fight shooting Reiklanders at heights/buildings

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Seikilos
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PostSubject: Tactic to fight shooting Reiklanders at heights/buildings   Sat 22 Mar 2014 - 10:26

Hi,

I had a problem in my last game and have the fear, there will be a few more games with the same problem:


My oponent is a Reiklander with five shooting models. When he gets the models in a building and positions his heroes at the entry, I have no possibility to reach his archers. I play beastmen by the way...

Pictures of this fight you can see here, post 3.


What would you recommend? How to get them down?



When not playing with Beastmen raiders, who would be a gang good against heavy shooters?

Another shooting warband?


I though of averlanders. Bergjägers and Halflingscouts with bs 3? Or marksmen with blunderbusses?

What would be a counter-warband?
Or am I a bad tactician? What would be a good reaction for this scenario?


Thanks!

Best regards,
Seikilos
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Tactic to fight shooting Reiklanders at heights/buildings   Sat 22 Mar 2014 - 12:15

The absolute trump for Reiklanders in my world is Dwarfs (mainly because very few of us would stoop to playing elves). But warbands like orcs, other mercenaries, pirates, skaven and Lizardmen do well, too.

All that is necessary is a little shooting to make the fort an uncomfortable place. Tilean Marksmen, Elf Rangers, Warlocks and witches can help with this as well.

Fighting Reiklanders with Beasts.
One pay attention during the set up of scenery. Set up cover to hide behind as you approach, lots of ladders and bridges.
Hide. Use cover and run toward them fast. Minimize the number of shots he can take at you each turn.

Pay attention when declaring charges. If only one model can attack, make that attack with your best fighter not a hound. If only hounds are in charge range, do not charge.

Remember that you do not need a ladder to climb and that Gors, Bestigors and such can climb up to 5 inches (if they suffered a wound that decreases their movement...)

My group allows Beastmen to hire any hired sword that is available to ANY warband. The restriction of Beastmen only being able to hire hired swords that specifically say they may be hired by Beastmen is kind of unfair since Beasts appeared in the LAST official Town Crier. Thus our Beasts have Warlocks, Witches and the like to help out with ranged attacks (or at least ranged disruptions).

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Seikilos
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PostSubject: Re: Tactic to fight shooting Reiklanders at heights/buildings   Sun 23 Mar 2014 - 2:05

Hi,

thank you for your answer.

After two days of rethinking, I'm pretty sure I could've done better in the battle, if I had a better tactic. As you wrote, I should've climbed the building from behind and going over a bridge from the other side.

The more I think, the more I'm sure, that for example Averlanders wouldn't be that good a counter. Especially their halflings with only T2 are shot down immediately (on the paper). Actually Beastmen seem to be a really good counter because except for Ungors and Warhounds they ALL have T4, which is really good against S3 bows.

Shooting at him is a little difficult. Everything I would be doing wouldn't be as good as his marksmen with BS 4.

I think about the hired swords. But I really think, that would be against all of my fluff thoughts....
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PostSubject: Re: Tactic to fight shooting Reiklanders at heights/buildings   Sun 23 Mar 2014 - 3:17

You don't counter shooting with more shooting. You just go up to his face and smash it in! Stomp on them with your hooves!

Also shields and cover. Reducing their chances to hit and then also against your T4, it shouldn't be too effective. But then, it's down to the dice and they might not be with you that day, it happens Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Tactic to fight shooting Reiklanders at heights/buildings   Sun 23 Mar 2014 - 3:50

Hi,

thank you for your response. That's what my last thought was, too. Don't counter shooting with more shooting.

With my next gold, I'm going to buy shields for my warband. Also I really have to learn how to use cover. I was playing three games, but none of the players ever used cover. I'm not even sure, how it actually works =/
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PostSubject: Re: Tactic to fight shooting Reiklanders at heights/buildings   Sun 23 Mar 2014 - 4:08

Well, you get down to look from the shooting models viewpoint, and if any part of your model is covered, he counts as in cover. (-1 to shooting. And this is wether he can only see your arm, or only your leg is behind cover.)

Also beastmen, with their increased Movement, can more easily go from cover to cover.
Shield + Cover + Over half-range means that those pesky BS4 marksman only hits you on a 6!
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PostSubject: Re: Tactic to fight shooting Reiklanders at heights/buildings   Sun 23 Mar 2014 - 4:27

Hi,

sorry, i mixed up using cover and hiding.

I'm using cover really often, but because I'm pretty fast at the enemies warband, he mostly shoots in short range. And shields actually have only my centigor and my chieftain... I think about it after the next game giving my gors and bestigors additional shields.


About hiding I'm not sure, how it works. Can I hide myself every time I normally would be in cover?
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PostSubject: Re: Tactic to fight shooting Reiklanders at heights/buildings   Sun 23 Mar 2014 - 5:48

If you have the funds, getting shields are useful against shooting, even if you have no intention of using them in close-combat. They still give shooting penalty if you just have it on your back, if the unit is dual wielding or using a Great Weapon.

You can hide when you're in cover. You can't run and hide, so hiding is a bit slower.
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PostSubject: Re: Tactic to fight shooting Reiklanders at heights/buildings   Sun 23 Mar 2014 - 6:23

Ork wrote:
Shield + Cover + Over half-range means that those pesky BS4 marksman only hits you on a 6!

...getting shields are useful against shooting, even if you have no intention of using them in close-combat.They still give shooting penalty if you just have it on your back, if the unit is dual wielding or using a Great Weapon.

What rules are you using? Shields give a 6+ armor save that can stack with other armor, they do not decrease the chance of getting hit. Thus your example above would be: Cover+Over half-range means a hit on a 5. (At least if you are not using a house rule.)

As far as shooting countering shooting, it really depends on your warband choice. If both warbands feature shooting as a strength, you can counter good shooting with more shooting. It happens all the time. Dwarfs for example give Reiklanders fits because they make the fort tactic unworkable. The dwarfs can out range the Marksmen in the fort because Dwarfs gain +6" to crossbow and handgun range. Even if the Dwarfs are BS3, they can pot away from long range without fear of getting hit in return. Which forces the Reiklanders to abandon the fort, which means that the Dwarf close combat warriors can reach them.
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PostSubject: Re: Tactic to fight shooting Reiklanders at heights/buildings   Sun 23 Mar 2014 - 6:31

Oh right, sorry about that. It was one of our house-rules. They would hit on a 5.

Still, shields don't make things worse!
And depending on what kind of building the marksmen get themselves into, looking out of windows and such often gives them blindspots, you can just circle around, once more utilizing the beastmen speed Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Tactic to fight shooting Reiklanders at heights/buildings   Tue 25 Mar 2014 - 5:56

If you don't have good cover between you and the shooters, send some cheap henchmen as moving meat shields in front of some heroes. Send the heroes and what's left of the henchmen into the building to charge the shooters. And yes, give your heroes some rope. Since its only bows the shooters are using, you might even have a good number of models that reach the shooters.

I would be more worried about crossbows and hanguns.
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PostSubject: Re: Tactic to fight shooting Reiklanders at heights/buildings   Tue 25 Mar 2014 - 8:02

If buildings are the issue, picking the Scale Sheer Surfaces skill on any heroes with access to the Speed table is a great solution. Don't remember how much of the Beastmen warband has it, but at least some do.
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PostSubject: Re: Tactic to fight shooting Reiklanders at heights/buildings   Tue 25 Mar 2014 - 8:05

Hi,

only my chieftain could get speed skills...

Okay, my shaman, too... but I'm not sure if I like to get him as first option in h-t-h-combat.
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