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Seikilos
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PostSubject: Questions about henchmen and experience   Fri 14 Mar 2014 - 8:55

Hi,

i have a question about experience and advance rolls. But because there's no german forum about general questions, I'm gonna ask here. Hopefully I can get an answer!


At the henchmen list, you can write down name, type and NUMBER.
Is it so that ALL my Ungors would be in one henchmen group?

What is a group anyway?


In the rulebook is a passage saying, if a henchmen group survives, it gets +1 EP. Does that mean, if ONE Ungor survives, all Ungors get EP? Or does it mean, if one ungor survive, THAT ungor gets one EP?

At "That lad's got talent" it says, ONE member of the group gets promoted. Does that mean in a gor group one gor will become a hero? Or can a group consist of one gor and two ungors?


Sorry for that basic questions, but I don't know anywhere else, where I could get these answered!


Thanks and best regards,
Seikilos
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Grimscull
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about henchmen and experience   Fri 14 Mar 2014 - 9:40

Seikilos wrote:
Hi,

i have a question about experience and advance rolls. But because there's no german forum about general questions, I'm gonna ask here. Hopefully I can get an answer!
tabletopwelt.de has a mordheim-subforum where you can ask general questions. I'd link you to it but it's off for about a week for maintainance/ a big overhaul (which is why I'm here more frequently these days)

At the henchmen list, you can write down name, type and NUMBER.
Is it so that ALL my Ungors would be in one henchmen group?
Depends. See below.
What is a group anyway?
You can (but don't have to) put several henchmen in one group. They have to be equipped the exact same way to do so. Grouping them together is important for warband-managing-reasons and has both advantages and disadvantages. Members of one group still act as individual models in combat

In the rulebook is a passage saying, if a henchmen group survives, it gets +1 EP. Does that mean, if ONE Ungor survives, all Ungors get EP? Or does it mean, if one ungor survive, THAT ungor gets one EP?
All Ungors get that EP, even if they get out of action during the fight but don't die afterwards. Under certain circumstances, you can even "fill up" already existing groups with new members that will start with the Experience that group already earned (see RB for details). So, as long as one member survives, your XP are save.

At "That lad's got talent" it says, ONE member of the group gets promoted. Does that mean in a gor group one gor will become a hero? Or can a group consist of one gor and two ungors?
The first. As said, groups have to consist of the same type of henchmen.

Sorry for that basic questions, but I don't know anywhere else, where I could get these answered!


Thanks and best regards,
Seikilos
The main disadvantage of putting severals henchmen in one group is that you only get to roll once when leveling up. I like to not group my henchmen at first. If I start with 4 henchmen, I figure that probably 3 will survive for the first level-increases after game two or so. This way, I have three rolls instead of one and a higher chance of rolling "Lad" or a nice increase. After that, I make a group of the menchman with the nicest increase. A little risky, but nothing sucks out the fun more than rolling, let's say, leadership for your group of four gor.
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Seikilos
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about henchmen and experience   Fri 14 Mar 2014 - 13:51

Hi Grimskull,

thanks for your answer. As I was searching for mordheim at a german forum, tabletopwelt was already down! Gw-Fanworld.de has only a dead Mordheim-Forum!


So, when you have three rolls for three different groups of henchmen, each constisting of one (let's say) Gor.

The first group gets +1 attack
The second gets +1 strength
The third gets +1 toughness


Now i really think, the toughness would be the best. I resolve group one and group two and they are all in group three.

If they have all the same equipment, they now have ALL +1 toughness?
If they don't have the same equipment, I have to buy it, before combining the groups?
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about henchmen and experience   Fri 14 Mar 2014 - 14:53

Seikilos wrote:
So, when you have three rolls for three different groups of henchmen, each constisting of one (let's say) Gor.

The first group gets +1 attack
The second gets +1 strength
The third gets +1 toughness

Now i really think, the toughness would be the best. I resolve group one and group two and they are all in group three.

If they have all the same equipment, they now have ALL +1 toughness?
If they don't have the same equipment, I have to buy it, before combining the groups?

First of all, it is not possible to get +1 Toughness for a henchman group (unless you play with certain house rules). The possible increases are WS/BS, Strength, Initiative, Attack & Leadership. Besides Lad's Got Talent.

Second of all, the requirements for merging a group is the following:

The individual groups must have the same:
a. Equipment.
b. Experience Points.
c. Increases.

Meaning that you will need to roll the same increases for all seperate groups, equip them with the same items and have them on the same level.

The increase-randomness is the main reason that most merged groups are around 2 or 14 experience. This is probably also what the rule is intended for - to add to your best henchman group, so you won't lose it.

Hope this helped!
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about henchmen and experience   Fri 14 Mar 2014 - 14:57

Once a henchman group is formed it can never be combined into a larger group. Once you have three groups you always have three groups until the members of the group are killed, promoted or dismissed from the warband.

You may buy new henchmen and add them to your existing group as per the rules for adding henchmen to existing groups (See new recruits and existing henchmen groups in the Trading section of the rules.)
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about henchmen and experience   Fri 14 Mar 2014 - 15:23

Von Kurst wrote:
Once a henchman group is formed it can never be combined into a larger group.

I was sure that this was possible, but now I've looked through all rule documents I have and can't seem to find it. Might very well be it's just a house rule we've made up because it made sense.

Von Kurst wrote:
Once you have three groups you always have three groups until the members of the group are killed, promoted or dismissed from the warband.

This sounds a bit misleading. You could read it as though 'three henchmen groups are the maximum a warband can have' - I believe that this is not what you mean, correct?
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about henchmen and experience   Fri 14 Mar 2014 - 16:13

Darn, and I was trying so hard to be clear!  Embarassed 
I was referring to Seikilos' example of three henchmen groups above:  
Quote :
So, when you have three rolls for three different groups of henchmen, each constisting of one (let's say) Gor.

The first group gets +1 attack
The second gets +1 strength
The third gets +1 toughness


Now i really think, the toughness would be the best. I resolve group one and group two and they are all in group three.
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Grimscull
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about henchmen and experience   Sat 15 Mar 2014 - 2:14

Seikilos wrote:
Hi Grimscull,
thanks for your answer. As I was searching for mordheim at a german forum, tabletopwelt was already down! Gw-Fanworld.de has only a dead Mordheim-Forum!
They are down from the 12th to the 19th this month. The Subforum is not as bis as TOM's of course, but you'll find some dedicated players there as well and some might even be from your neighbourhood.
Everything else is answered already, I guess.
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about henchmen and experience   Sat 15 Mar 2014 - 3:09

Von Kurst wrote:
Darn, and I was trying so hard to be clear!  Embarassed 
I was referring to Seikilos' example of three henchmen groups above:

I know the feeling ^_^
Makes more sense then!

Still can't figure out where I got the whole "add groups together"-thing from. Must be from somewhere!
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Goglutin
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about henchmen and experience   Sat 15 Mar 2014 - 7:30

Von Kurst is right. You cannot merge or split groups. But you can add new henchmen to it of you pay their ''veterancy'' cost (2 Gold per XP) and equip them the same as the others in the group,

Groups are usually limited to 5... but for convenience some groups (that do not gain xp) can be packed unlimited in a single pack (ex:giant rats).

Personally I prefer to have 2-3 different smaller groups so I increase my chances to get LGT. But you sometime lose a group because one become a hero and he is the last one in his group because his partner just died.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions about henchmen and experience   Sat 15 Mar 2014 - 7:59

Goglutin wrote:
But you can add new henchmen to it of you pay their ''veterancy'' cost (2 Gold per XP) and equip them the same as the others in the group
Okay, I wrote that Seikilos should look up how it was done exactly but since it's partly described here already I might as well complete it so that what gets mentioned here is not just partially right.
Yes, if you want to add a new member to an existing group, you have to pay the new henchman (of course) and his equipment as well as 2 gold for every XP-point the group already has.
BUT you also have to roll two dice after a game to see how much XP you can invest into new recruits. I cannot explain this properly in english but here is an example.
You already have three henchmen-groups, one with 1, one with 3 and one with 4 XP. Now, if you roll a 7 after a game to see how many XP-points worth of new recruits you are allowed to increase your already existing groups to, you could add one member each to your 3- and 4-xp group or two new members to your 3-xp group and one to your 1-xp group. But you cannot add two new members to your 4-xp group (because you would have to have rolled an 8 instead of a seven).
That was kind of hard to explain  scratch

Edit: this roll is done AFTER xp-points for surviving are distributed among heroes and henchmen-groups. So you cannot play a game, fill up a group and then increase the XP by one. All this makes it rather hard to add more than one member to a single group per game later during a campaing.
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Seikilos
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about henchmen and experience   Sat 15 Mar 2014 - 8:36

Hi,

thank you all for your patience and help!

I hope, I understood everything right.

A last question to Grimsculls posting: I have to roll two dice for ALL groups or? So if I have a group of gors and two groups of ungors, i roll two dice and decide in which group to take new henchmen? Or do I roll seperately for all my gor groups and all my ungor groups?
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about henchmen and experience   Sat 15 Mar 2014 - 9:16

No, you roll once for your ENTIRE WARBAND after each battle. And what you roll there you have to split up among the henchmangroups you want to expand. So if you want to expand two groups, one with 5-xp and the other one with 4 by one member each, you'd have to roll a nine. And if you wanted to expand a group with 5xp by one member and the other group with 4xp by two, you cannot do so, because this would require you to roll a 13 (5+4+4) with only two dice.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about henchmen and experience   Sat 15 Mar 2014 - 10:58

Yes... I overlooked this...

In our group we have a home rule for recruiting veterans.

Instead of searching a rare item a hero can go recruiting. He must pass Ld test and if successful you can add 1d6 point to the veterans point you have available.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about henchmen and experience   Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 6:23

Grimscull wrote:
No, you roll once for your ENTIRE WARBAND after :-)each battle. And what you roll there you have to split up among the henchmangroups you want to expand. So if you want to expand two groups, one with 5-xp and the other one with 4 by one member each, you'd have to roll a nine. And if you wanted to expand a group with 5xp by one member and the other group with 4xp by two, you cannot do so, because this would require you to roll a 13 (5+4+4) with only two dice.

Nuts. I thought you would roll for each group not the whole warband. Mind
you, i like it this way.

Also, as far as i know, you can have as many henchmen groups as you want as long as it doesnt pass the number of members allowed in the warband or the henchmen limit (ie: only so many swordsmen in the warband). So if you want 10 different warrior henchmen groups with 1 warrior in each, you can, if you can afford it.

I like the idea of having 3 or 4 henchmen groups with 1 guy in each when starting a warband so you have better luck at advancement rolls and then add to them later.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions about henchmen and experience   Today at 18:10

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