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 Tome of Magic & Dwarves

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Aipha
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PostSubject: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Wed 12 Mar 2014 - 15:11

Thing is. Dwarves has the innate aversion to magic.

But... It says nothing in the rules about it. There's no restriction on the Arcane Lore skill, even though it's accessible with a simple (2 2 2 2 2) roll, which is easy to get for Dwarves.

Can they use a Tome of Magic or not?
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Lord 0
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Wed 12 Mar 2014 - 18:23

RAW, yes they can. The big limitation is that to use a tome of magic you need access to the academic skills. This means (off the top of my head) only the engineer, TLGT hero that took academic, or someone that got an Alchemist's Notebook will be able to effectively use it.

As far as RAI goes, well, these dwarfs were already kicked out for going against tradition. No reason they couldn't also take up magic against tradition.
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Thu 13 Mar 2014 - 4:01

The Engineer doesn't start with Academic skills, so you need the notebook first, but again, easy to access.

What tradition are the Dwarves going against?
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davinewrath
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Thu 13 Mar 2014 - 11:52

The tradition of not throwing magic around like an elf and sticking to good old dependable runes like any sensible dwarf?

They use a lot of blackpowder weapons, which is pretty radical for dwarfs of that period
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Fri 14 Mar 2014 - 14:56

I was mostly asking what traditions the Treasure Hunters have abandoned - I don't think that it's the treasure hunting part, which I find very Dwarvish! Razz
Why were they 'kicked out' as Lord 0 puts it so delicately?

So the blackpowder is against the tradition at the time?
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Fri 14 Mar 2014 - 16:56

I read "God king" (Sigmar - Time of Legends), where dwarfs already had boomsticks. In another Time of Legends series (about black death 1111) dwarfs use handguns. I guess that almost 2000 years after Sigmar bp weaponry is not that much radical Very Happy  Especially when humans and skaven have it.

Magic though... I think it's equally heretical to dwarfs as it is to most humans. Smile 
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Fri 14 Mar 2014 - 18:12

Quote :
Occasionally, a Dwarf noble will find himself in desperate times. His family hold may have been overrun by Goblins or Skaven, or he may have somehow disgraced himself and been banished. Other Dwarfs know these warriors as the Dispossessed. Dwarfs are a proud race and it is against a Dwarf ’s nature to lose himself in despair. Instead, a noble who finds himself in such dire straits will gather together a group of his closest friends and kin and go treasure hunting, hoping to accumulate a large enough hoard to establish his own holding.
This a quote from the fluff for the Dwarf Treasure Hunter warband. These dwarfs are desperate and disgraced. It is possible that they would therefore turn to magic if they got the opportunity and thought it might help to reverse their bad fortune.

I would definitely allow it if a Dwarf player wanted to use magic. I would respect a player with a Dwarf warband who chose NOT to allow it for their own Dwarf warband though also. RAW it is allowed so I see no reason to disallow it.
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Sun 16 Mar 2014 - 4:00

I have a Dwarf Wizards miniature from the 1980's. I remember reading a battle report with some sort of Thunder Wizard/Mage in a dwarf army from one of my first White Dwarf magazine purchases! Then the GW studio came up with all this cool stuff for Runepriests during 3rd or 4th Edition Warhammer.

No reason why your dispossessed Dwarf Warband shouldn't employ a conjuror of cheap tricks. Maybe write some background for how your disgraced Hero became a magician! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 4:00

Well, in the Nemesis crown Dwarf Rangers skill list there is a little notice (page 23):

Quote :
*Note that Dwarfs may never take the Arcane Lore skill. It is not possible for a dwarf to learn to cast spells.

Personally, I would extend it to ALL dwarves...

However, I'd allow a dwarf to take a home rule skill that permit him to inscribe runes like the runesmith from the dwarf rangers warband...
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 10:39

That's sensible talk right there. I'll update the Hired Words compilation to reflect this modernisation of dwarf magic craft.

There is Journeyman Runesmith Hired Sword who can be hired by a Treasure Hunters warband.
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SerialMoM
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 12:44

I am a back to the roots type of player and have currently purchased the third edition Warhammer rules.

Dwarves had powerful wizards at that time. I like this way of history very much.
By the way there are existing some very awesome dwarf wizard sculpts of that time.

I would allow it, but every group needs to play the game their way.
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 5:52

I see some good points here. I'd like to know what the 5th edition said though, since that would provide a clear picture on how it looked at the time.

I'll take a look into that Runesmith though, sounds interesting!

... I would just love to have that flying Slayer Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Tue 26 Aug 2014 - 6:38

And now I have him. Any updates on the 5th edition stuff about Dwarf magic? Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Tue 26 Aug 2014 - 15:49

As I own a few of the old dwarf wizard models, I would certainly allow it.  It does not unbalance the game, that I can see, and it fits in with the dwarf warband being both non-conventional and desperate. Certainly with the rules as written, it is legit.
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Tue 26 Aug 2014 - 16:22

Great - Thank you! Glad you came with that input Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Wed 27 Aug 2014 - 0:17

I also feel like it fits the theme of the stories in the book, where there is a slow (or fast) decent into darkness based on necessity and grabs for power. I think I would definitely allow it, unless there was a specific notation in the warband.
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Wed 27 Aug 2014 - 0:28

Aipha you got it? Way to go; I just found a second alchemist's notebook and gave it to my slayer. I'm short (ha) on cash but it's just a matter of time before I find a Tome and my slayer gets skills. I'd love the sword, or wings, or luck. Arrows would be cool, fireball looks alright, and dread is kind of weak. But really, the goal is to have a magic dwarf; anything would be good.
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Wed 27 Aug 2014 - 4:52

Great. Well, I believe there has been provided some solid evidence and some good arguments that Dwarves should indeed be allowed, in desperate times, to make use of every tool they can get their hands on (including magic), to regain their honour (and collect treasures!)

Yes, Saluksic, I did indeed. Actually he wasn't even supposed to get it, I had tomes in my stash for a 17 exp Clanswoman, who unfortunately ended up with 6 multiple injuries; Robbed, Old Battle Would, Chest Wound... and then I stopped rolling and removed her. Two games later, I found the Notebook and my new Slayer was an obvious choice for that. He ended up with two spells: Sword of Rezhebel & Flight of Zimmeran. Can't complain about that ^_^ but yeah, that one skill to be able to use Tomes of Magic can really boost a Slayer no matter what!
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Wed 27 Aug 2014 - 16:28

If you are allowing rules from Relics of The Crusade, the magic tattoos are pretty neat for Slayers also.
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Saluksic
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Wed 27 Aug 2014 - 17:11

Man, multiple Tomes in stash; that's big money right there. Did you combine the jewels from 33333 on the exploration with Streetwise to find tomes on 9's for rarity?
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Wed 27 Aug 2014 - 19:38

Didn't even realize dorfs could read. Ya learn somethin' new every day.
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Tue 2 Sep 2014 - 8:27

MrDancyPants wrote:
Didn't even realize dorfs could read. Ya learn somethin' new every day.
They can read. Just too stubbern to do so....
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PostSubject: Re: Tome of Magic & Dwarves   Today at 21:07

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