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Theycallmejosh
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PostSubject: Daemons   Mon 10 Mar 2014 - 14:24

Im surprised a Daemons of chaos warband hasnt been created yet... anyone ever made an attempt at it?
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PostSubject: Re: Daemons   Mon 10 Mar 2014 - 14:52

If you used the daemons in the Carnival of Chaos warband as your prototype (which I think is appropriate) you'd run into the issue of no one (at least not henchmen) ever gaining experience. So the warband would be very powerful to start with, but quickly lose ground. Could be quite interesting though. Hmmm...now you've got my wheels turning.
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PostSubject: Re: Daemons   Mon 10 Mar 2014 - 15:14

I like the idea of it, but I also don't know how it would fit into the fluff. Warhammer demons struggle to maintain their corporeal forms for more than a few hours, and have significant difficulty transitioning between realspace and the warp.

On the other hand, Daemons are quintessential Warhammer and there should be some way to include them in the game. I have two suggestions for this:

First, make the Daemon mechanic similar to Lesser Magic. The ability to summon daemons is available to all warbands save Witch Hunters or Sisters of Sigmar. There would have to be a significant barrier to entry, and certain irreversible consequences for any warband that wanted to go down that road. Further, daemons would have to be somewhat capricious in nature. Perhaps something similar to an animosity roll. At the start of each turn roll a D6 for each daemon summoned: on a 1-3 the daemon simply becomes unstable and cannot be summoned again. On a 4-6 a series of bad things happen, with a 5 or 6 meaning that the daemon has turned on his master and becomes a hostile NPC for the remainder of the game.

Second, make the Daemon warband similar to Necromunda's Arbites. Rather than being a real warband that belongs to a single player, they act as a sort of environmental enemy. Once a month they will attack the warband with the highest rating or largest cache of wyrdstone, and can be controlled by a neutral party or the player with the lowest warband rating. The daemons can never take permanent losses, rout at 75% OOA, and will only grow more powerful as the league progresses.

Thoughts?
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Daemons   Mon 10 Mar 2014 - 17:08

Quote :
Im surprised a Daemons of chaos warband hasnt been created yet... anyone ever made an attempt at it?

It seems that someone does every few months or so. However a search just turned up these--

http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t6516-demonic-host-warband-inspired-by-robintrevize-s-demon-warb?highlight=Daemon+++Demon+++Deamons

http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t1003-the-impossible-dream-the-demon-warband?highlight=Daemon+++Demon+++Deamons

Interestingly a search for the word Daemons did not turn up this thread... Suspect 

Most warbands flounder on the whole balance issue or ignore it altogether.

Rules for summoning Daemons in Mordheim were published in TC#14 "Dark Rituals of the Chaos Gods", pp. 42-45.
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PostSubject: Re: Daemons   Mon 10 Mar 2014 - 18:38

I agree with Major Sharpe and VK. Daemons do already exist in Mordheim in the form of the Carnival of Chaos and random events and probably some scenarios. However, they don't work so well as an actual warband.
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PostSubject: Re: Daemons   Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 4:31

Hmmm,

Personally, I dont like much the two demons warband Von Kurst pointed here.

If I was creating a demon warband I'd keep in mind a few things.

1-Focusing on a warband that uses the superb miniatures from the demon army of GW.

2-Balancing the warband

3-Using the Undead warband as a base. Having a central piece (a summoner and his apprentice??) that act a bit like the vampire and the necromancer in the undead warband. I mean if they both die.. the magic that holds the demons in the reality vanish and the warband fades !!

4- Force to choose one of the 4 great power. Undivided would give the possibility to mix demons from different gods and may prove much harder to balance... (and as a matter of taste also...)

5- Instability should be a matter... but the warband should have access to thing to avoid or reduce his occurrence. A simpler way to include it could be a higher death rate for henchmen.

6 - Demon heroes and upgrading : With their xp, instead of rolling on the normal advance table, I'd create a table that fit each of the great powers, mixing gifts, mutations and ''bad things'' (yes chaos can be a bitch sometimes).


Hey.. wait... Tough I had not much success with my ''creations'' before I could still give it a try... lets get to work Goglutin !!! But be ready for a harsh (and fair) critic !!
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PostSubject: Re: Daemons   Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 5:48

Fluff wise, third edition WFB did have Daemonologists. They could act as the summoner.
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Theycallmejosh
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PostSubject: Re: Daemons   Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 13:45

Here's what I came up with

Daemons of Chaos

Choice of warriors:


A Daemons of Chaos warband must include a minimum of three models. You have 500gc available to spend. The maximum number of warriors in the warband may never exceed 12

Herald: your warband must include 1 Herald, no more no less!
Lesser Daemon: Your warband may include up to 3 Lesser Daemon
Half-Formed: Your warband may include up to 2 Half-Formeds
Host: Your warband may include any number of Hosts
Chaos Beasts: Your warband may include up to 2 Daemonic hounds
Fury: Your warband may include up to 3 Furies

Special Rules

Summoning:
Daemons are obviously not hired in the traditional sense so the gc cost for hiring represents the cost of the resources required to perform the magics that let them cross over to the mortal world.

Daemonic:
Daemons are not of this world and so gain some special abilities that mere mortals do not possess but these do come at a price. Unless otherwise stated all members of the Daemons of Chaos warband follow the rules for Daemonic as outlined below.

  • Immune to Poison and Drugs: All Daemons are Immune to the effects of all poisons, drugs, potions, and herbs.
    Immune to Psychology: They instantly pass any LD based test they are required to take due to the effects of psychology (except rout tests).
    No Pain: Daemons do not feel pain as humans do and for some it is closer to the human feeling of pleasure. Daemons cannot be stunned and are instead treated as knocked down as if they had made a successful helmet save.Cause Fear: Daemons are Horrifying creatures to behold and so cause fear
    Daemonic Instability: Daemons are relentless creatures that live for killing. They would sooner die than flee from battle. However, daemons are only bound to this world by the fickle power of the winds of magic and can be recalled by the Gods to the chaos realm if the are being seen as weak. If a Daemons of Chaos warband fails a rout test, the entire warband is not removed from battle. Instead, every model with the Daemonic special rule must pass a LD test on their own unmodified LD at the beginning of each of their turns or be removed from the battle. They are considered OoA, however, they don’t have to roll on the Serious Injuries chart, as when the battle is over, they can regain their physical form. Models removed this way lose their chance at exploration as they are too busy manifesting themselves again. A Daemons of Chaos warband cannot voluntarily rout.
    Daemon Weapons: All daemons and their weapons originate from the Chaos Realm, therefore all daemonic attacks are considered magical. All equipment is gained as rewards from (or begging to) the Gods. The rarity roll represents whether or not the Gods smile upon them and grant their request.

True Children of Chaos: Daemons are the true children of chaos and so are not willing to interact with the lesser servants of chaos despite answering to the same masters. A Daemons of Chaos warband will not hire any hired sword or dramatis persona that is not of a daemonic nature.

Children of the Gods:
Most daemons are associated with one of the four chaos gods while some are agents of them all. Upon creation A Daemons of Chaos warband must decide which of the gods they wish to serve and this will give them certain bonuses and special rules. These bonuses only apply to Heralds and Lesser Daemons

  • Khorne: +1S, +1WS,  5+ Scaly skin armour save
    Nurgle: -1M, +1T, +1W, -2I, 4+ Regeneration Save, Poisoned attacks (6’s to hit auto-wound)
    Tzeench: -1M, -1WS, -1S, +4BS, Up to 2 models gain Wizard,  18” S4 Ranged Flaming attack
    Slaanesh: +1M, +2I, +1A, Cannot use hand weapons, shields, buckler, etc., Always strike first, Armour Piercing


Starting Experience:
A Herald starts with 20 experience
A Lesser Daemon starts with 12 experience
A Half-Formed starts with 0 experience
Henchmen start with 0 experience

Daemonic Host skill tables:
As each race of daemons has its own prowesses and faults, the skills table is different for each race.

  • Khorne: Combat, Strength, Special
    Nurgle: Combat, Strength, Special
    Tzeench: Academic, Speed, Special
    Slaanesh: Combat, Speed, Special


Maximum characteristics
Daemon
M…..WS...BS........S…...T...W…...I…..A....LD
5/6`.....8.....0/6*….6/7#...6...3/4%...7...4/5`...10
* = Tzeench
` = Slaaanesh
% = Nurgle
# = Khorne

Half-Formeds and Hosts: use Human maximums




Daemonic Gifts

HAND-TO-HAND WEAPONS
Dagger
Mace
Axe
Sword
Spear
Mourning Star
Flail
Double-Handed Weapon

MISSILE WEAPONS
None

ARMOUR
Light Armour
Heavy Armour %

*Humans only
% Heralds only

Mortals

HAND-TO-HAND WEAPONS
Dagger
Axe
Spear
Double Handed Weapon

MISSILE WEAPONS
Bow (10gc)

ARMOUR
Shield
Helmet
Light Armour




HEROES

Herald
1
110gc
M..WS..BS..S...T....W...I...A..LD
5.....5.....0….4...4….1....4...1...9
Weapons /Armour: May choose weapons and armour from the Daemonic Gifts list

Special rules

Leader: Any models in the warband within 6” of the Herald may use his Leadership instead of their own (not for Daemonic Instability).

Daemonic: As detailed in the warband special rules.


Lesser Daemon
0-3
75gc
M..WS..BS..S...T...W...I...A..LD
5.....4.....0...3...3...1...4...1...8
Weapons/Armour: May choose weapons and armour from the Daemonic Gifts list

Special rules

Daemonic: As detailed in the warband special rules.

Time to Grow: Lesser Daemons need time to grow in their host body before they can manifest themselves in corporal form and so none can be hired after warband creation meaning that you have to promote Hosts to get more lesser Daemons.


Half-Formed
Sometimes a daemon attempts to leave their human host before they are strong enough to hold their form and end up trapped as mortal half daemon half human mutants. The outward appearance of these mutants is not that unusual so these unfortunate beasts shuffle around in long black cloaks amongst the humans purchasing supplies for the Heralds to summon forth their daemonic army with.
0-2
30gc
M..WS..BS..S...T...W...I...A..LD
4.....3.....3...3...3...1...4...1...7
Weapons/Armour: May choose weapons and armour from the Mortals list

Special rules

Mortal: Half-Formeds are mostly mortal and so do not benefit from the Daemonic special rule.

Part Daemon: The part transformation to a daemon has left the Half-Formed with some of the Daemons Power. Upon recruitment but before equipment is bought roll a D6 to see how the transformation has affected the Half-Formed.
1. The Half-Formed is sees itself as lesser than any daemon. In an attempt to compensate for its shortcomings, it will fight through anything to prove itself worthy of the glory of Chaos. The Half-formed is immune to psychology.
2. The Half-Formed is blessed with some of the resilience of the daemons. The Half-Formed has the No Pain special rule.
3. The Half-Formed has patches of daemonic flesh littering their body and is something truly horrific to behold. The Half-Formed causes fear.
4. The Half-Formed realizes that it cannot compete with its fellow daemons on a level playing field, so it decides to be insensitive. It may now choose from an extra skill list of the players choosing when adding a new skill.
5. The Half-Formed is given a fighting chance by the Chaos Gods. They may make a free, immediate advancement roll.
6. The Half-Formed possesses all of the traits of their patron god. The Half-Formed gains the bonus that Lesser Daemons get for following their god.


HENCHMEN

Host
The hatred and pain of battle helps the daemons mature inside their humanoid cocoons so they regularly enter into the numerous fights on the streets of Mordheim.
0+
30gc
M..WS..BS..S...T...W...I...A..LD
4.....3.....3...3...3...1...3...1...7
Weapons/Armour: May choose weapons and armour from the Mortals list

Special Rules:

Mortal: While the daemons are in their human hosts they are mortal and so do not benefit from the Daemonic special rule.

Ascension: Hosts are incubators for daemons wishing to start their adventure into the physical world. Daemons live within the hosts, learning to stabilize and control a physical form, before bursting forth in a shower of blood and viscera with their own physical form.  After starting the warband, heroes can no longer be replaced simply by hiring them if they are killed. They must be grown inside hosts before they gestate. When rolling ‘The Lad’s got Talent’ during an advancement, Roll a D6 and consult the chart below:

• 1 – Something has gone horribly wrong (in the wrong way). The host has displeased the gods somehow and they have, in turn, punished the host. The host is turned into a Chaos Spawn. It is immediately removed from the warband roster as it shambles away into the city for some future warband to encounter.
• 2-3 – The daemon has tried to emerge too soon and does not know enough to maintain its physical form. It seeks aid from the host to maintain in this realm. The Host now counts as a Half-Formed. Immediately make the necessary rolls for it and move it into the hero section of the roster. If there are no slots available, it remains a henchmen and reroll the advancement, ignoring any ‘The Lad’s got Talent’ rolls this time.
• 4-6 – The Host rolls on the ground in pain, clutching its gut and screaming, contorting into positions that surely break bones and rip flesh. Finally, it explodes and in it’s place stands a fully formed Lesser Daemon. Add a Lesser Daemon to the Hero section of the roster. It immediately gains all benefits from its Chaos god. Equip it accordingly. If there are no slots available, it remains a henchmen and reroll the advancement, ignoring any ‘The Lad’s got Talent’ rolls this time.


Chaos Beasts
The Chaos Beasts are animals that have Daemons possessing them, controlling their every move, and pushing them to their physical limits. They only have concern for killing anything and everything in their path.
0-3
50gc
M..WS..BS..S...T...W...I...A..LD
7.....4.....0….4...3...1...4...1...7
Weapons/Armour: Fights with claws and teeth

Special Rules

Crazed Frenzy: The daemon controlling the beast pushes it as far as the physical form can withstand. It attacks with such intensity and utter insanity for its unstoppable desire to shed blood. Chaos Beasts have Frenzy. This frenzy, however, is unyielding and continues after the animal has been ‘knocked down’.

Cause Fear: These animals are more ferocious than their unpossessed counterparts.

No Pain: They treat ‘stunned’ as a ‘knocked down’ result

Simple Daemons: Chaos Beasts are simple daemons that do not learn from their mistakes as such they do not gain experience.


Fury
Like the Daemonic Hounds the relative ease with which Furies can be brought into the realm of men makes them abundant in the cursed city
0-3
25gc
M..WS..BS..S...T...W...I...A..LD
5.....3.....0...3...3...1...3...1...7
Weapons/Armour: Fights with claws and teeth

Special Rules

Daemonic: As detailed in the warband special rules.

Simple Daemons: Furies are simple daemons that do not learn from their mistakes as such they do not gain experience.

Fly: Furies may make a move or charge as normal, however their flying ability allows them to move up and down elevations and over obstacles and models without penalty. Their charges cannot be intercepted and always count as making a Diving Charge as they swoop in to attack.

Razor Claws: On the turn that a Fury charges it may make an additional attack.



DAEMONS OF CHAOS SPECIAL SKILLS

Eternal Hatred: The daemon is so fixated on the destruction of all life that they hate all enemies.

Rooted to this World: The Daemon can reroll their Daemonic Instability test (the second result stands).

Mutation: The warrior may buy a single mutation from the Possessed Mutation list.

KHORNE SPECIAL SKILLS

Crazed Frenzy: The daemon is permanently subject to Frenzy. This is never lost, even if knocked down.

Gift of the Gods: The daemon’s weapon is blessed by Khorne. It now grants Critical Hits on 5+

NURGLE SPECIAL SKILLS

Cloud of Flies: The daemon’s rotting flesh is foul enough to attract a cloud of flies. Any model wishing to strike it in close combat does so at -1 to hit.

Scent of Decay: The putrid stink given off by the Daemon is overwhelming, anyone coming close to it retches in disgust. All models in base contact must pass an initiative test each turn or strike last for that round of combat.

TZNEETCH SPECIAL SKILLS

Armour of Chaos: The Gods graft a suit of Chaos Armour directly onto the body of the Daemon. This counts as a 4+ Armour save, which cannot be removed. This does not hinder the Daemons ability to cast spells.

Wizard Adept: The Daemon yearns to be the most powerful spellcaster in the physical realm. It can now cast two spells during each Shooting phase instead of one (they can be two different ones or the same spell twice).  If the second spell is failed, however, they suffer a hit with S equal to the amount the spell was failed by (if the spell was difficulty 8 and a 5 was rolled, the daemon would suffer a S3 hit), No Saves allowed.

SLAANESH SPECIAL SKILLS

Pain for Pleasure: For every wound suffered by the daemon, The daemon gains +1A.

Unnatural Quickness: The daemon gains a 6+ save against shooting and close combat. This can only be modified if the daemon has the Dodge or Step Aside skills, making them 4+ instead of 5+
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PostSubject: Re: Daemons   Today at 5:58

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