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 Making arrests

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RationalLemming
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PostSubject: Re: Making arrests   Wed 12 Mar 2014 - 21:20

+1 to VK.

The "Know Your Rights!" section on page 3 will be good but currently it is very unclear. You have a good flair for interesting writing but usually boring writing is best to create clear rules. I will make some suggestions here.

Quote :
Jurisdiction: Warriors taken out of action in close combat by warriors from a constabulary are placed under arrest whenever an Injury Chart result rolled is a natural 6, unless the warband making the arrest is routed first.
I think that this should be removed as it is the same as the CP 5 achievement. Listing it separately makes no sense and makes the CP 5 achievement mute.

Quote :
Civil Liberty: Civilians include all humans, elves, dwarfs, ogres and halfing folk. Goblins, Orcs, Beastmen, Daemons, Fimir and Skaven have no civil rights! These foul creature and any models that cannot gain experience cannot be placed under arrest. They must be put to the sword! Roll on the Injury Chart as normal.
Makes sense.

Quote :
Above the Law: Diplomatic immunity afforded to an Emissary, Ambassador or Envoy puts them outside the jurisdiction of any law enforcer. Racketeers and Enforcers joining the Marienburg Gentleman's Club are protected by unspoken initiatives. Members of the League of Gentleman Entrepreneurs cannot be placed under arrest are also immune. These warriors cannot be placed under arrest.
I assume that league membership will be mentioned elsewhere (perhaps under other plots). The edit is suggested to make wording more clear.

Quote :
Agencies: A minefield of protocol prevents any Witch Hunter, Inquisitor of Solkan, Private Investigator or other officers of the law from being placed under arrest by another constabulary. These warriors cannot be placed under arrest.
The italics and text added is suggested to make wording more clear.

Quote :
Felonies: Characters without a criminal record can be caught in the act! Instead of rolling on the Serious Injury Chart the warrior chooses to go quietly after the battle. Any drugs, poisons, profane books, Chaos artefacts or tainted items carried by the warrior are impounded! Items confiscated are removed from warband roster sheets.
What does this mean? Is a roll of 6 required or are the warriors automatically arrested?

Quote :
Misdemeanours: Scavenging for salvage is not a criminal act unless maritime law is being violated. Civil unrest involving riots could lead to more serious offences that constitute facing trial. Whether an arrest leads to a prison sentence or a short term of detention depends on the outcome of a conviction. Roll on the Conviction Chart in the post battle sequence to see what sentence the constabulary dishes out to a warrior placed under arrest.
I have added italics to the above to separate the fluff from what I believe is the rule. I believe that this simply states that arrested warriors must roll on the Conviction Chart.

Quote :
Felons: Thieves and cutpurses are always working a job! When identifying if a model is a crook refer to their set of skills then check any titles. If any keyword or title is found to match a criminal act then consider them a felon. These warriors can be placed under arrest.
The text above is added for clarity.

Quote :
Wizardry: Marienburg wizards have been given protection by the Fraternal Order of Burgomeisters. Since 1993 any magicians arriving in the city remain unmolested so long as they register with Baron Henryk's College of Navigation and Sea Magicks in Temple District within their first two days of their visit. Being a wizard is not enough cause to place a warrior under arrest. These warriors are not immune to being placed under arrest if valid reason is identified.
Italics and text added for clarity.

Quote :
Necromancy: Witchcraft and hedge wizardry remains the jurisdiction of licensed witch-killers and agents from Baron Henryk's College. The City Watch maintains a zero tolerance policy on necromancy. Those found to carry occult trappings will be recognised as a Necromancer. Occult items include Mummy Dust or a Book of the Dead. These warriors can be placed under arrest.
Text added for clarity.

Quote :
Grave Robbery: Presiding over the bone gardens of Morr are the grave wardens. A particularly unusual spate of defilements usually falls under the jurisdiction of the Morrian church.
I don't understand this. If this is under the jurisdiction of the Morrian church then is this valid grounds for a watch patrol to make an arrest or is this similar to the "Wizardry" example and is stating that the reason is not sufficient to make an arrest?

Quote :
Slavery: Norse mercenaries and traders travel the Old World and beyond. Norse tribes attempted to re-open trade relations with Marienburg and the Empire after the Storm of Chaos. Norse raiders previously sacked the port four times so it is little wonder that the practice of slavery has been outlawed in the Free City of Marienburg. These warriors can be placed under arrest.
Italics and text added for clarity.

Quote :
Piracy: Privateer ships are a never ending problem, and one that is harder to pin down than defeating a foreign navy. In 2378 the Marienburg Merchant militia conducted successful campaigns with its fleets against the pirates of Reavers' Point. Currently, the pirates of Strandräuber Bay off Ostland are the most notorious. They plague the trade routes into Erengrad, and are known for wrecking any captured vessel. The bounty on the heads of these notorious currs has exceeded the most infamous corsairs from Sartosa!

While strict laws condemn piracy not all found guilty end up swinging from the gallows in Hangman's Square. Pirate crews have been granted full pardons in clandestine bargains making it increasingly difficult for the law to be enforced. Not to mention that half of the stevedores working on the Marienburg docks are dressed like pirates!
What is this saying? Is this a valid reason for making an arrest or not?

Quote :
Banditry: River brigands committing open piracy on the Reik aren't the only problem. Wasteland bandits and the outlaws of Sickly Wood stalk the fens surrounding Marienburg! They face immediate trial if taken into custody. These warriors can be placed under arrest.
Italics and text added for clarity.

Quote :
Smuggling: Smuggling is an ancient and honoured profession in the Wasteland, even though the law prohibits the smuggling of various opulent commodities. In 2399 the Directorate appointed its own excise service to see to the efficient collection of tariffs and seizure of contraband. While the River Watch assumes responsibility for combating both smuggling and piracy, the canals are rife with illicit cargo. Identities of all but the most wanted gangsters can be kept hidden, though not from the scrutiny of bounty hunters and private investigators.
What is this saying? Is this a valid reason for making an arrest or not? Also, if it is valid for an arrest then is it valid for City Watch and Marsh Watch to make an arrest or only the River Watch. I think splitting this up would cause too much confusion and it is better to have an all-or-nothing rule.

Quote :
Murder: The worship of Khaine might be outlawed but the City Watch investigates plenty of stabbings. Backstabbers and assassins keep a low profile because they top the most wanted lists. These warriors can be placed under arrest.
Text added for clarity.

Quote :
Arson: While it is not an offence to possess bombs or other incendiaries it is a violation of the law to carry explosive devices around in the city. Nehekharan fire, torches, braziers and fire arrows if being used to set on fire a building, boat, warrior or other models is treated as arson. Perpatrators of arson should automatically be placed under arrest at the scene of a crime if they are taken out of action. Pyromaniacs will not be tolerated! These warriors can be placed under arrest.
Italics and text added for clarity. Oh and I like this addition as fire can be powerful when fire rules are used and this is a reason NOT to use fire!  thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Making arrests   Thu 13 Mar 2014 - 2:14

This is all great feedback guys.

Von Kurst - Fugitives appear in the Strigany Gypsies warband. These characters are fugitives of the law, which makes them known felons. If placed under arrest they will be identified as wanted criminals, which in turn means the player could score a campaign point.

Rationale - The models who can and can't be placed under arrest were defined in the officer's guide. As for the rest of the characters who you are querying they can all be placed under arrest. The question a player needs to ask themselves is not "Can I arrest them?" but "Should I arrest them?"

The only arrests which convert into campaign points are those made on known felons, or models found to be committing a felony (by carrying fell cargo).

Something else which I've noticed as a topic to raise more questions is stunned (or knocked) down models and experience points. Warriors gain experience for making arrests in the same fashion as putting models out of action. Stunned models aren't legitimate targets for arrests. I thought about this in testing the guidelines and for various reasons it never felt appropriate to allow officers to arrest stunned warriors. Similarly a knocked down model never requires a roll on the Injury Chart but an arrest on a model who is merely knocked down doesn't seem quite so unlikely. I'm still in two minds on this and the matter could certainly do with further clarifications

The final outcome of the achievements doesn't state some grand objective for completion. The counterpart plot for mobsmen makes other warband members impossible to arrest until a warrant for another model is achieved. I think the completion would be to get that enemy leader into custody at whatever the cost.

Regards,

Werekin

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RationalLemming
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PostSubject: Re: Making arrests   Thu 13 Mar 2014 - 4:39

werekin wrote:
The only arrests which convert into campaign points are those made on known felons, or models found to be committing a felony (by carrying fell cargo).
Good point. Many (most?) warriors can be arrested but only the criminal types actually provide Campaign Points. I either didn't realise this or keep on forgetting it.

werekin wrote:
Something else which I've noticed as a topic to raise more questions is stunned (or knocked) down models and experience points. Warriors gain experience for making arrests in the same fashion as putting models out of action. Stunned models aren't legitimate targets for arrests. I thought about this in testing the guidelines and for various reasons it never felt appropriate to allow officers to arrest stunned warriors. Similarly a knocked down model never requires a roll on the Injury Chart but an arrest on a model who is merely knocked down doesn't seem quite so unlikely. I'm still in two minds on this and the matter could certainly do with further clarifications.
I hadn't considered this. A roll of 6 on the injury table sort of could imply that instead of being knocked down, stunned or taken out of action the warrior is simply arrested (hence your comments about 'chooses to go quietly after the battle'). It does make for a clunky mechanic though unfortunately which I guess is why you are still trying to work out which way to go. If you choose to allow stunned and knocked down models to be arrested then you could just say that a D6 roll of 6 is still required in these instances even though there is no actual roll on the injury table. This would be similar to Black Lotus that can auto wound but still allows a roll 'to wound' just to see if a critical hit is scored so there would be a precedence for this mechanic in the rules.

werekin wrote:
The final outcome of the achievements doesn't state some grand objective for completion. The counterpart plot for mobsmen makes other warband members impossible to arrest until a warrant for another model is achieved. I think the completion would be to get that enemy leader into custody at whatever the cost.
I really like this idea as the finale.  bounce  It has a similar feel to 'Duel to the Death' in the Scourge of the Realm BTB objective. It also feels very fluffy. I can imagine that the player with the criminal warband and plot would keep their leader very protected once a warband made this achievement. That feels like something out of a mafia movie where out of loyalty (and fear) the mobsters will protect their crime boss at all costs while the cops sometimes go to extreme lengths to take a kingpin down.
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Making arrests   Thu 13 Mar 2014 - 21:38

werekin wrote:
Rationale - The models who can and can't be placed under arrest were defined in the officer's guide. As for the rest of the characters who you are querying they can all be placed under arrest.

Um, yes, RL was quoting the officer's guide and trying to add some clarity to it.

werekin wrote:
The question a player needs to ask themselves is not "Can I arrest them?" but "Should I arrest them?"

Huh? Players ask a lot of questions, but 'should I' is not one of them. Especially when campaign points are at risk.

Fluffy text is all well and good, but some clear rules would be more useful in the long run.
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PostSubject: Re: Making arrests   Fri 14 Mar 2014 - 1:42

Von Kurst wrote:
werekin wrote:
Rationale - The models who can and can't be placed under arrest were defined in the officer's guide. As for the rest of the characters who you are querying they can all be placed under arrest.

Um, yes, RL was quoting the officer's guide and trying to add some clarity to it.
Thanks VK. I missed that when I read werekin's response.  Yes, I was literally quoting the rules because in their current state it is not clear what is fluff and what are the actual rules. Adding italics will help separate out the fluff. Also, some consistent wording would go a long way towards clearing up the rules.

I really like what is there but it would be very hard to play with in its current state.
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PostSubject: Re: Making arrests   Tue 18 Mar 2014 - 10:22

Thanks for continued feedback on this guys.

I noticed another couple of points.

Concerning felonies, there are special campaign rules for breaking and entering into locked buildings. Anyone found breaking into such a building either by force or picking a lock would be classified as a felon if they could be caught in the act!

Concerning models placed under arrest, these models still belong to their original starting warbands. They cannot be retired.
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PostSubject: Re: Making arrests   Today at 11:29

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