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 Flagellants and maxing out Stats

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The Ultra-Mega Bob
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PostSubject: Flagellants and maxing out Stats   Mon 16 Dec 2013 - 9:16

So, after playing a few games with my Witch Hunters in a new campaign, I noticed that Flagellants can max. out their stats, whilst still being henchmen.

We were thinking of implementing a rule in our campaign, which prevented units such as Flagellants and Ghouls, from being forced to upgrade their Ballistic Skill, since they have no access to ranged weapons and/ or zero BS- it's basically just a wasted upgrade, since there is no way they can ever benefit from it; it also doesn't make sense that they would improve their ability to aim weapons they have never used.

If anyone else has used a similar house-rule, how would you get around the fact that Flagellants would then max. their stats out and still have an upgrade left?

Would you let them break the usual Henchman rule of only +1 to each stat? (so long as it stayed within racial maximums of course)

Would you make them take the BS upgrade, since that's how it should be played using the RAW?

Would you let them stay 1 point below the amount needed for the last upgrade, so that should one of your Heroes die, they can pretty much automatically get The Lad's Got Talent and replace him?

---------

My own though is that they should be allowed to increase WS or Attacks beyond the normal Henchmen maximum, so they would be either WS5 or A3, but that could be pretty brutal- so far I have several Henchmen groups of one Flagellant (as I was hoping for a LGT roll) but I can see this being a bit good if I started buying new recruits into turbo-maxed Flagellant groups...

Then again, I (and my group) didn't think it fair that they should be made to take an advance they can't use.

Internet wisdom would be appreciated, as I want to play this in a way which will be even-handed.

Cheers guys Smile
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catachanfrog
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PostSubject: Re: Flagellants and maxing out Stats   Mon 16 Dec 2013 - 11:08

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The Ultra-Mega Bob
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PostSubject: Re: Flagellants and maxing out Stats   Mon 16 Dec 2013 - 12:32

Well, I figured that was the more appropriate thing to do- i.e. add +1 BS. I think it's junk that you have to do it, so will propose to my group that we let the owning player leave the BS upgrade until it's their last one.

Rather than cause thread Necromancy, I'll ask another related question here, based on this quote:

Quote :
If a characteristic is at its maximum, take the other option...If both are already at their racial maximum, you may increase any other (that is not already at its racial maximum) by +1 instead.

If that's the case, and over two upgrades your Flagellants roll both a WS and a BS upgrade (on henchmen) can you then choose to boost any other stat by +1?

I ask because Flagellants are already at their racial maximums for Str and Ld, so after a few upgrades they'll be at the Henchmen maximum stats; is this a way to get a Henchmen group with two wounds each? o_O
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PostSubject: Re: Flagellants and maxing out Stats   Mon 16 Dec 2013 - 12:54

Quote :
Henchmen never add more than +1 point to any of their
initial characteristics. If the dice roll indicates an increase
in a characteristic which has already been increased (or
is at its racial maximum), roll again until an unincreased
charateristic is rolled
. All warriors in the group gain the
same advance.
As long as there is an unincreased skill left (and there will be one if Flags have to take BS), you cannot. The paragraph you quote deals with heroes, I think (even if it doesn't say so).
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catachanfrog
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PostSubject: Re: Flagellants and maxing out Stats   Mon 16 Dec 2013 - 13:09

The Ultra-Mega Bob did you read my post? scratch  Flagellants don't have to increase BS...
Grimscull wrote:
The paragraph you quote deals with heroes, I think (even if it doesn't say so).
Well, when it doesn't, it applies to henchmen too I think.
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PostSubject: Re: Flagellants and maxing out Stats   Mon 16 Dec 2013 - 13:35

The paragraph I quoted is directly under the headline "henchmen" and says to "roll again". Ultra-Mega Bobs paragraph says to "take the other option" which is both contradictory to "my" paragraph. Also, only for heroes' advance rolls there is "the other option" (e.g. strenght/attack) which leads me to the conclusion that it is for heroes only.
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The Ultra-Mega Bob
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PostSubject: Re: Flagellants and maxing out Stats   Mon 16 Dec 2013 - 20:26

Yes Catachan Frog, I read your post; you asked a question that was similar to mine, but the only answer on it, was that technically you DO have to take the BS upgrade.

Rules as Written (RAW), that is exactly what you have to do; I was just wondering how other people used it, if they also house-ruled it to get around the BS upgrade - because Flagellants specifically, would have maxed out all other stats.

Grimscull: I know what you mean, and that is how I have always played it, but I was just hoping to have found a weird loophole in the RAW :p
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PostSubject: Re: Flagellants and maxing out Stats   Tue 17 Dec 2013 - 0:09

Taking an advance that cannot be used can actually be a subtle (but maybe dodgy though) way of lessening the power of a strong henchman choice. It sucks but Flagellants are still mighty good henchmen.
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catachanfrog
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PostSubject: Re: Flagellants and maxing out Stats   Tue 17 Dec 2013 - 3:15

The Ultra-Mega Bob wrote:
Yes Catachan Frog, I read your post; you asked a question that was similar to mine, but the only answer on it, was that technically you DO have to take the BS upgrade.

The answer was that they don't and everyone agreed on that. Shocked 
But well, seems you need to find your own way Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: Flagellants and maxing out Stats   Tue 17 Dec 2013 - 5:32

The Ultra-Mega Bob wrote:
If anyone else has used a similar house-rule, how would you get around the fact that Flagellants would then max. their stats out and still have an upgrade left?

We allow them to re-roll a WS/BS roll, if they already have an increase in one of them. We allow them to "choose" the already picked stat and thus be entitled to a re-roll. This applies to all Heroes and henchmen.

The Ultra-Mega Bob wrote:
Would you let them break the usual Henchman rule of only +1 to each stat? (so long as it stayed within racial maximums of course)

Nope.

The Ultra-Mega Bob wrote:
Would you make them take the BS upgrade, since that's how it should be played using the RAW?

They will be forced into taking the BS as their last increase, if they do not choose to become Heroes.

The Ultra-Mega Bob wrote:
Would you let them stay 1 point below the amount needed for the last upgrade, so that should one of your Heroes die, they can pretty much automatically get The Lad's Got Talent and replace him?

Nope. When they reach 14 exp, you have a choice - get a Hero, or get the BS increase.
It's still a 14 exp Hero, not as potentially good as one on 2 or 5 exp. Also, it increases the chance of Lad's in general for all warbands, so it's a rule, which is good for all, and doesn't leave anyone with always rolling BS with a melee Hero.
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PostSubject: Re: Flagellants and maxing out Stats   Sun 5 Jan 2014 - 8:02

Our group does the same as Aipha - allowing someone to 'choose' the already chosen stat and re-roll, so that you only have to take BS if it's the last increase remaining (as is the case with Flagellant groups in their last advance).

It's a quality of life ruling for everyone, as it doesn't force people to take useless or near-useless increases. At the core, it's just more fun for everyone involved, which is why we made this decision.
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PostSubject: Re: Flagellants and maxing out Stats   Today at 13:09

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