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 2D or 3D

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Aipha
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PostSubject: 2D or 3D   Fri 6 Dec 2013 - 6:04

Basically the question is: Is anyone playing with measurements in 3D?

Instead of having Soulfire affect anyone within 4" up to the sky, then a warrior in a 6" tower would be safe? Same with hiding; "oh, you're 8" up? Well, let me just walk right over here with my Initiative 2 and detect you".

Would actually make it a lot easier to measure, since you wouldn't have to lay down the folding ruler down on the table, but could simply measure from the Bowman in the tower to the Gor on the ground.
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PostSubject: Re: 2D or 3D   Fri 6 Dec 2013 - 9:15

Aipha please, make one thread  (example: Aipha's questions about Mordheim) instead of making 100 threads concerning one item or one rule. It's a bit annoying.
No offence Sir, yes sir!
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Lord 0
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PostSubject: Re: 2D or 3D   Fri 6 Dec 2013 - 11:01

In my group we use 3d (so Soulfire is a dome of effect rather than cylinder) and seems to be the best way of preventing sometimes silly results.

For what it is worth, I prefer the one question/one thread approach because it makes later searching easier, but each to their own.
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PostSubject: Re: 2D or 3D   Fri 6 Dec 2013 - 15:43

In my group we play 3D also.

I agree with Lord 0 that I prefer one question to one thread. I don't really like a big thread with lots and lots of questions. Individual threads make searching back later easier to do, make this little forum feel busy (which is nice for a change Smile ), make it easier for me to link BTB questions to my FAQ thread, and I think they also allow mods to more easily lock threads when the question has been exactly answered.
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: 2D or 3D   Sat 7 Dec 2013 - 2:22

Interesting. We always just played 2D, since my Mordheim group was founded by me and my old Warhammer buddy, where 2D is the way to do it.
3D just makes so much more sense!

An additional question which popped into my mind: Where do you measure from - head/torso/base/nearest part of the unit?

Thanks for the support with the threading - you've explained my reasons. I do a lot of searching before I post these, but I rarely find answers. I believe this has something to do with topics under topics. Discussions blooming in some existing thread.
For myself it's easier to search, if I do it like this and should find the threads later on. And yeah, making the forum more busy is definitely a factor as well Wink
Sorry if it's spamming you, catachan, it wasn't my intention to do so!
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PostSubject: Re: 2D or 3D   Sat 7 Dec 2013 - 8:20

Quote :
Interesting. We always just played 2D, since my Mordheim group was founded by me and my old Warhammer buddy, where 2D is the way to do it.
Really?  Our group started with lots of Warhammer players and we always played 3D.  I've never noticed that Warhammer was 2D, but I also haven't played the game since 8th and didn't play often in 7th. That and the group started when Mordheim came out so you would have been around 10 at the time...

Oh and I vote individual threads as well. I figure Aphia will provide us with a complete FAQ eventually. Very Happy 
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: 2D or 3D   Sat 7 Dec 2013 - 8:41

Well, you're right. Warhammer could of course be played 3D as well, but, at least in my games, we haven't used much scenary to make it so. This have resulted in 2D measurements. I played 6th edition when I was 12 - 16 Wink

Haha, I actually thought about that ^_^ would take quite some time though, and isn't Da Bank already doing that?
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PostSubject: Re: 2D or 3D   Sat 7 Dec 2013 - 8:50

Quote :
Haha, I actually thought about that ^_^ would take quite some time though, and isn't Da Bank already doing that?
He's been sidetracked for a while. Suspect 
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PostSubject: Re: 2D or 3D   Sat 7 Dec 2013 - 9:06

^_^ what's that supposed to mean?

Ah well, guess I'm on it then!
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PostSubject: Re: 2D or 3D   Sat 7 Dec 2013 - 13:07

In my group we played 3d mostly for flavour reasons. We had the vision of, say, Imperial cruisers vs Chaos cruisers having a battle and then suddenly "AHHHHH! Someone on the planet is using plasma grenades! Evasive action!" as pillars of plasma* and blind-grenade smoke come streaking up into orbit from the surface of the battlefield on the planet.

Basically, the argument was there has to be *some* limit to the height so it might as well be the radius. Also, we had a lot of Necromunda terrain so it wasn't uncommon for it to be very relevant indeed.

*The fact that, when we were playing, plasma grenades were a template weapon should date how long ago this was...

Oh yeah, we measure from the edge of the base. The centre of the base is too bothersome to get to.
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: 2D or 3D   Sun 8 Dec 2013 - 2:15

Lord 0 wrote:
In my group we played 3d mostly for flavour reasons. We had the vision of, say, Imperial cruisers vs Chaos cruisers having a battle and then suddenly "AHHHHH! Someone on the planet is using plasma grenades! Evasive action!" as pillars of plasma* and blind-grenade smoke come streaking up into orbit from the surface of the battlefield on the planet.

Basically, the argument was there has to be *some* limit to the height so it might as well be the radius. Also, we had a lot of Necromunda terrain so it wasn't uncommon for it to be very relevant indeed.
Aye, it does indeed make sense Wink

Lord 0 wrote:
Oh yeah, we measure from the edge of the base. The centre of the base is too bothersome to get to.
Alright, I see a problem here though. If you measure from the edge of the base - upwards - then a model with I1 might not be able to detect someone hiding right in front of his face. That's odd! (I'm talking about my stupid Saurus here)
Same goes with 2" high Trolls with I1, who wouldn't be able to detect someone they stood head to chest with!
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PostSubject: Re: 2D or 3D   Sun 8 Dec 2013 - 6:53

I'm not sure what that has to do with 3D, since its always the case even in 2D. Your examples are extreme since the I1 model will always detect a hidden model that it can 'see' or that is within its initiative range.
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: 2D or 3D   Sun 8 Dec 2013 - 7:26

Von Kurst wrote:
I'm not sure what that has to do with 3D, since its always the case even in 2D.
As it is now, as we play it, it would be detected, but only because we measure from base and forward, so whether the unit is 2" or 6" up in a tower wouldn't matter - it's still detected!
In 3D, measuring from base to base within 1,5" vertically, but 0,5" horisontally, would not result in a detection as far as I can see, which is why I would suggest measuring from the head in this situation. So in general - head or base, depending on which is closest. It would mean a lot for I1 models, but not that much for I7 Elves.

Von Kurst wrote:
Your examples are extreme since the I1 model will always detect a hidden model that it can 'see' or that is within its initiative range.
The second example might be a bit extreme, but if you imagine a wall between that head and chest, it would be the case. At least for us, since we play, that you have to see the whole model (or at least a huge part of it)
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PostSubject: Re: 2D or 3D   Sun 8 Dec 2013 - 13:27

If a slow-witted Troll is at the bottom of a tower, he wouldn't be able to tell someone is at the top because he's not that alert. The same should go for Saurus- they'd be too busy growling (or their stomach might be rumbling, in the Troll's case :p) and looking for a fight to hear quiet footsteps up above.

In my group we always play that you measure in a straight line, from the front of your base to the front of their base. If you're aiming upwards we are fine measuring from the head of the model, to whichever part of the target they can see. We tend to avoid aiming at people's weapons (because the static poses can often be outrageously unrealistic and not representative of someone in cover), but any part of their base or body is fine.

It makes no sense to me that Word of Pain / Soulfire would blast a column of damage all the way through the heavens, but only hurt someone three feet in front of them- leaving his mate, who's a foot further back, out of the blast...
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PostSubject: Re: 2D or 3D   Sun 8 Dec 2013 - 14:12

Indeed. If it is being beamed down from heaven it probably works like a holy meson beam. The mesons don't do any damage by themselves and pass through just about everything, but when they decay they cause damage. By timing when they will decay you get a beam that only damages what it is aimed at - not what is passes through. Looks quite impressive on the way down though...
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: 2D or 3D   Mon 9 Dec 2013 - 1:11

The Ultra-Mega Bob wrote:
If a slow-witted Troll is at the bottom of a tower, he wouldn't be able to tell someone is at the top because he's not that alert. The same should go for Saurus- they'd be too busy growling (or their stomach might be rumbling, in the Troll's case :p) and looking for a fight to hear quiet footsteps up above.
Completely agree. However, in my examples, the hiding warrior is not high up in a tower, he's hiding right in front of the Troll's nose!

The Ultra-Mega Bob wrote:
In my group we always play that you measure in a straight line, from the front of your base to the front of their base. If you're aiming upwards we are fine measuring from the head of the model, to whichever part of the target they can see. We tend to avoid aiming at people's weapons (because the static poses can often be outrageously unrealistic and not representative of someone in cover), but any part of their base or body is fine.
Agree, this makes most sense to me as well.

The Ultra-Mega Bob wrote:
It makes no sense to me that Word of Pain / Soulfire would blast a column of damage all the way through the heavens, but only hurt someone three feet in front of them- leaving his mate, who's a foot further back, out of the blast...
Right, this is something that's always bothered me as well, but we just thought, that was how it was ^_^
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