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 Ostlanders and Crossbows?

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Pfreck
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PostSubject: Ostlanders and Crossbows?   Thu 11 Sep 2008 - 6:22

Hi guys,

I was wondering - why don't Ostlanders have crossbows in their equipment list? I actually wanted to use crossbows in my warband, for three reasons: They look friggin awesome, they are cheaper than Handguns, they are strong!

Is there any way I can use a Jaeger with crossbow later in a campaign? It's still a common weapon, so why not? It'd be awesome if I could use them in my starting warband though..

Any thoughts?
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: Ostlanders and Crossbows?   Thu 11 Sep 2008 - 6:30

I don't know if crossbows were left out for fluff reasons or for balancing. You COULD house rule to give the Jaegers access to crossbows but don't expect me to approve of that. Razz You might as well house rule Jaegers to cost 10 gc instead of 25 gc. Whatever you do, just make sure that everyone in your gaming group is aware of it and agrees on it.

Remember that you can still wait for a Jaeger henchman to roll "lad's got talent" and become a Hero. If you give him access to Shooting skills he can pick Weapons Expert and you can then just buy him a crossbow (since they aren't space-specific or anything this won't be a problem).

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PostSubject: Re: Ostlanders and Crossbows?   Fri 12 Sep 2008 - 0:24

as it goes crossbows are hated by preaty much all the empire except the southern areas. Everyone prefers the hand guns, so thats probaly why.
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: Ostlanders and Crossbows?   Fri 12 Sep 2008 - 0:57

mrbretonnia wrote:
as it goes crossbows are hated by preaty much all the empire except the southern areas. Everyone prefers the hand guns, so thats probaly why.

I'm not so good with Empire history or background. That seems like a good reason. Thanks, mrbretonnia.

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PostSubject: Re: Ostlanders and Crossbows?   Fri 12 Sep 2008 - 8:06

Huzza, knew I didnt follow warhammer fluff religiously for nothing!

"Crossbows are not popular weapons in the empire, though Tilean mercenaries are often recruited to augment the firepower of a Count's armies. Some Counts from the southern provinces retain units of Crossbowmen as part of their personal houshold troops. Crossbows lack the penetrative power of the handgun, but are just as accurate in the hands of an expert"

Warhammer Armies: The Empire, 6th Ed, 2000, pg 7

Coincidently Ostland happens to be the most northern province in the empire Very Happy
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Pfreck
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PostSubject: Re: Ostlanders and Crossbows?   Fri 12 Sep 2008 - 9:11

Nice! Thanks for clearing that up MrBretonnia!

And thanks Cianty for your explanation as well! I think I'll just stick with Bows and Blunderbusses for my Jaegers, I hate to have a warband against the fluff!

I wondered why Averland was able to have crossbows, and now I know - they're from the southern part of the empire. Smile

I'll save my crossbows for a future Witch Hunters warband perhaps.. Smile


Cheers!

(this topic may be locked now Wink)

*click*
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Erkwin
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PostSubject: Re: Ostlanders and Crossbows?   Sun 14 Sep 2008 - 1:04

Still you have to keep in mind Mordheim is taking place two hundred years before the Warhammer Fantasy story-line.
So black-powder weapons are more expensive, and less effectif.

Anyway I'd say that the Mordheim warbands are gangs of street thugs, and no State Troopers, so only because the Imperial Armies are provided with handguns, these guys won't automaticly have some either.
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PostSubject: Re: Ostlanders and Crossbows?   Sun 14 Sep 2008 - 1:40

Erkwin wrote:
Still you have to keep in mind Mordheim is taking place two hundred years before the Warhammer Fantasy story-line.
So black-powder weapons are more expensive, and less effectif.

Anyway I'd say that the Mordheim warbands are gangs of street thugs, and no State Troopers, so only because the Imperial Armies are provided with handguns, these guys won't automaticly have some either.

IIRC Mordheim takes place around 500 years before the current warhammer setting, as the comet hit mordheim in 1999 by the imperial calander. and archaon attacked middenheim in something like 2522, so around 523 years.

And while you have a point in regards to the guns being less effective, I have a differing oppinion on the quantity and availability. The resources for black powder would have been more plentiful and easier to obtain, so no doubt it would be on the cheap (Free in mordheim! Razz ).

Compare it to the 1800's. Every man and his dog had a handgun.

So in a nutshell I think handguns are big in the empire. everyone either has a bow (hunters and foresters) crossbow (tilian and southerners) or a handgun (everyone cool)

But I am one man, and if you dont agree with me, I would ignore me, for you know best right Very Happy
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SirLeon
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PostSubject: Re: Ostlanders and Crossbows?   Wed 24 Sep 2008 - 1:35

Erkwin wrote:
Still you have to keep in mind Mordheim is taking place two hundred years before the Warhammer Fantasy story-line.
So black-powder weapons are more expensive, and less effectif.

But I thing, everyboady is asking, why they are so expensive. By the rules, they are a waste of money and in reality blackpowder weapons become so interessting, because you can build thme faster than a crossbow and they are't so expensiv.
So why they make it for mordheim?
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Eliazar
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PostSubject: Re: Ostlanders and Crossbows?   Wed 24 Sep 2008 - 1:45

SirLeon wrote:
By the rules, they are a waste of money and in reality blackpowder weapons become so interessting, because you can build thme faster than a crossbow and they are't so expensiv.

Did you mean it's cheaper and faster to produce a blackpowder weapon than a crossbow?

I wouldn't say so, as blackpowder weapons are still in development during the Mordheim period, thus there would not be that many people around who are actually able to produce one, whereas I image that a lot of people would be able to chunk together a crossbow. You'd also need more metal for a gun barrel etc. wich is even more expensive. Further, I imagine it to be quite hard in the beginning era of blackpowder weapons to get them to have a proper accuracy, thus increasing the price again.
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PostSubject: Re: Ostlanders and Crossbows?   Wed 24 Sep 2008 - 2:02

Remember that the empire has a ginormous trade set up with the dwarfs. The dwarfs have very little in the way of food source (THOUGH they do have biscuts made of rock and grain). The dwarfs trade various of their items such as armour, arrow/bolt heads swords and axes AND HANDGUNS. this being the case, handguns are reasonably common and the dwarf engineers have set up numerous places where they tought the empire of black powder. this began during the time of sigmar, where engineers such as Alaric (yes the mad) tought the empire of steam generators and the like.

God I need a girlfriend Sad


Last edited by mrbretonnia on Wed 24 Sep 2008 - 2:39; edited 1 time in total
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Eliazar
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PostSubject: Re: Ostlanders and Crossbows?   Wed 24 Sep 2008 - 2:21

mrbretonnia wrote:
God I need a girlfriend Sad

lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Ostlanders and Crossbows?   Wed 24 Sep 2008 - 2:25

Eliazar wrote:
mrbretonnia wrote:
God I need a girlfriend Sad

lol!

yea, something tells me Arial isnt going to let me take her out *shakes fist at Orion*
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KingSkin
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PostSubject: Re: Ostlanders and Crossbows?   Wed 24 Sep 2008 - 2:28

I'd say handguns are cheaper to produce than crossbows because it takes less skill. It's a lot of worked from a trained craftsman to produce a crossbow that does the job properly which is why, historically, crossbows were far more expensive than bows. They were also a lot faster to reload than people seem to think but that's beside the point.

Handguns, on the other hand, while costing more in terms of the metal only need a mould you can pour the molten metal into and someone who can carve out a stock from wood. This means they can be effectively mass-produced by journeymen under the care of someone with more skill.

The constituents of blackpowder are also fairly easy to come by and the ammunition itself is child's play compared to producing a decent crossbow bolt.

As Mr Brettonia pointed out earlier, blackpowder weapons were incredibly common items by the 1800s.

Anyway, all this is pretty pointless now that the question has been answered to everyone's satisfaction.
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PostSubject: Re: Ostlanders and Crossbows?   Wed 24 Sep 2008 - 2:38

Whilest handguns will probaly be made quicker, the ammunition is not reusable so training is expensive as apposed to arrows which can be taken from battle to battle.

Here is my little pro and cons chart;

Crossbow

Pro's

Reusable ammunition
Bow is more usable in damp/wet enviroments
Arrows have a very long life span

Cons

Long learning Curve (Tragectory and elevation of fire)
Every component must be made by hand (with the exception of arrow heads)

Handgun

Pro's

Short learning curve (IE point and shoot)
Mass production VIA molds

Con's

Ammunition is not reusable
Black powder 'goes off' reasonably quickly
black powder becomes almost useless in a damp/wet enviroment

Looking at these, its clear that the only advantage of the bow is the reusable amunition and the tolerability to damp weather.

The introduction of the arquebus killed the crossbow. the reload time was fast, it could be mass produced and was the perfect weapon for conscripts and it had greater armour peircing capabilities.

Firearm > Crossbow
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PostSubject: Re: Ostlanders and Crossbows?   Today at 0:56

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