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 Ideas and Ruminations. Praag and Modular Warbands.

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benjaminography
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PostSubject: Ideas and Ruminations. Praag and Modular Warbands.   Tue 13 Aug 2013 - 17:09

Hey Folks!

We are rebooting a local Mordheim scene in a few months after some work commitments have died down.

We want to try out a bunch of ideas, some of which we are aware that there are rules for, and some there are not. In the preceding time we would like to develop a ruleset to work with, and hopefully this could develop into a resource for everyone.

Here is a bunch of things we will be planning to use -


  • A campaign ruleset based around the frequently sacked city of PRAAG.
  • A model of the city based around a hexagon map, with corresponding hexagonal scenery boards (see Mighty Empires)
  • Resources and income based upon territories
  • A larger narrative set around the campaign which can be used to affect individual battles (basically a war between city militia and rebels, which you can side with and summon based upon faction credit)
  • A Modular Warband System - recruiting warbands based upon available characters and troop choices. (The more exotic warbands which show up will get replaced by local talent as they get killed off!)


The Modular Warband system at present kind of works based around heroes. So if you recruit a Kislevite Sergeant for example, you may recruit a unit of henchmen based off his diplomatic proficiencies.

Leaders would obviously have certain diplomatic choices of their own.

Llet me know if you have any ideas!
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas and Ruminations. Praag and Modular Warbands.   Tue 13 Aug 2013 - 18:12

I think it is a bit of a different concept but StyrofoamKing created rules for custom built warbands taking inspiration from Dogs of War. You may be able to find the discussion for these rules on this forum if you search.

https://sites.google.com/site/styroheim/cry-havoc---dogs-of-war

There have also been discussions around sergeants in henchmen groups which are better than the rest of the henchmen but not heroes. Again, this is a little bit different to what you are envisioning but it might give you ideas. Unfortunately I cannot find it in the forum search. scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas and Ruminations. Praag and Modular Warbands.   Tue 13 Aug 2013 - 18:58

Sounds like a wonderful project. The choice of Praag is inspired. The host of plots available is nearly endless. If you are at a loss, daemonic faces appear in the walls!
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas and Ruminations. Praag and Modular Warbands.   Wed 14 Aug 2013 - 4:02

Thanks for the link to that Styrofoam King stuff! That'll be really useful!

The idea for the sergeants wasn't so much for stronger characters within Henchmen Groups, but more that you would be allowed access to henchmen groups depending on the race/alignment of the heroes.

So for example,

You start off with an exotic Dark Elf Warband which might have heroes like this -

Heroes

Dark Elf Noble (Leader)
Witch Elf Hag
Assassin
Beastmaster
Sorceress
Corsair Sergeant

Henchmen

4 Corsairs (As enabled by the Corsair Sergeant)
3 Witchelves (As enabled by the Witch Elf Hag)
5 Hounds (As enabled by the Beastmaster)


After a bunch of games loads of the Druchii have died, leaving only

Dark Elf Noble
Assassin
Witch Elf Hag

3 Corsairs
2 Hounds

You decide to recruit heroes from Praag. There are no Dark Elves available, so you recruit as Heroes a Marauder Chief a Night Goblin Trapper and a Night Goblin Shaman.

The Marauder Chief allows you to take a range of Norse troop types. You pick regular Marauders. Similarly with the Night Goblin Shaman and Trapper you can take a bunch of Goblins if you want. The Trapper can take over management of the hounds as he can take these.

So now we have...

Heroes

Dark Elf Noble
Assassin
Witch Elf Hag
Night Goblin Shaman
Night Goblin Trapper
Marauder Chief

6 Goblin Archers
3 Marauders
3 Corsairs
5 Hounds

Over time the warbands will become much more mercenary, and as you travel from one campaign setting to the next you will become more varied.

I was thinking that if you lost the appropriate hero to a henchmen group (so if you lost the marauder chief) the henchmen could take a leadership penalty. By re-recruiting an appropriate hero there could be some obvious advantages, like being able to replace lost henchmen within a group with instant full exp and bonuses.

This whole system could overhaul the idea of 'maximum' warband members as the number of henchmen within the groups could be more varied enstead of 1-5. Goblins and Lesser Skaven could be 1-8, Orc Big Uns' and specialist humans might be 1-3.

I think a flowchart might help....
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas and Ruminations. Praag and Modular Warbands.   Tue 20 Aug 2013 - 18:17

Still bumming around with some ideas at the moment and reading some WFRP sources for inspiration.

I'm thinking of context at the moment, and where to place it in the timeline. This could greatly affect alot of things, such as narratives within the city (ie internal factions) and who/what is available from outside.

Currently I'm thinking of the years following The Second Great Chaos Incursion, so Praag would have been sacked by a huge Chaos Invasion, and then put to the torch by Magnus the Pious. At this point refugees and survivors are returning and rebuilding the city.

I'd like to implement 'factions'. So entities which you can do missions for, and in return you could get access to a bunch of types of support. An obvious faction could be the city guard. So if you end up working for them (so killing brigands and skaven) you would start gaining access to higher quality weapons from the barracks, different henchmen options may be available and at the uppermost groups of soldiers to assist you in battle.

The three factions I have in mind for Praag are -

Praag City Guard - Soldiers loyal to the city, who must protect it from enemies outside and within.
The Crimson Brotherhood - An organised underground criminal group who want to take control of the city and seceded from Kislev.
Chaotic Hordes - Surviving members of the incursion as well as newer members from within the city.

So its kind of Preserve the city, Conquer the city or Burn the city.

Lastly I'm thinking of doing some kitbashing to make the bulk of these kislevite characters. This is just a digital mockup -



All components are from plastic sets from Perry Miniatures
The head is from a British Hussar Box (you get 70 heads plus 28 sword arms!)
The body is from an American Civil War Zouave set. (I thought the little jacket and baggy pants worked well)
The arms are from their Wars of the Roses set.

Let me know what you think!
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas and Ruminations. Praag and Modular Warbands.   Tue 20 Aug 2013 - 20:04

Using the Perry plastics is a pretty cool idea. The various components look great together. (although the head looks a bit big...)

Have you ever played any of the Animosity campaigns sponsored by Da Warpath (or the similar campaigns run by other Warhammer forums; Warhammer Empire, Bugmans, etc)? Your faction ideas remind me of their system of Figure Heads and Locals. The Figure Heads are political, spiritual and military leaders that you can beg favors from and who may assign tasks, quests or the like. Locals are similar to Dramatis Personae or Hired Swords.
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas and Ruminations. Praag and Modular Warbands.   Sun 25 Aug 2013 - 15:43

I've never heard of any of those campaigns, thanks for letting me know! Checked them out and that is definitely the sort of thing I was thinking of.

Going back to the Modular warband constructions and narratives, I was thinking about how storyline choices and roleplaying choices could be in built into the rules.

Your initial warband creation will start with the creation of your leader. This isn't just a high powered hero with good leadership, but your character, and the soul of the warband.

Your first choice would be what archetype set you'd choose from. These would determine what races and classes he/she could be. These archetpyes could be things like 'local hero', 'despoiler', 'exile' etc. Certain personal and warband wide skills and attributes would be determined by this choice.

Initial thoughts for these in context to a Praag ruleset could look like this -

LOCAL HERO - A local folk hero, street urchin, noble or experienced soldier. The local hero is the embodiment of his homeland. They have a good knowledge of the local area and its resources, giving them a natural advantage to both warband recruitment and the organisation of their territory.

Praag Choices - Kislevite Factions of various ranks, Norse, Northern Empire States.

DESPOILER - The religious fanatic, aspiring warlord or fierce antagonist. The despoiler comes to usurp the established order, to conquer, burn or avenge. They recruit and plunder to achieve their ultimate goal regardless of the cost in both lives and resources.

Praag Choices - Chaos Cultists, Orcs, Goblins, Witch Hunters, Rival Kislevite factions, Skaven, Necromancers

ROGUE - Brigands and Thieves, Mutants, Undead and Worshipers of Dark Gods. The rogue hides in the shadow of society, waiting for their time to seize control. The rogue will have excellent knowledge of their circles of both recruitment and resource gathering.

Praag Choices - Skaven, Vampires, Chaos Cultists, Some Goblin Factions, Necromancers

EXILE - Outcast Princes, Masters of Forbidden Lore, Travelers from Unknown Lands. Frequently accompanied by a few loyal retainers or eclectic brothers in arms. The Exile makes up for their lack of local knowledge with both exotic knowledge as well as unique objects.

Praag Choices - Anyone geographically far away, so High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Dwarfs, Lizardmen, Arabyans etc. More local choices could be from the Empire, such as wizards or disgraced soldiers

The choices would link to very specific characters. The archetypes could have sub-sets which would provide stat bonuses, money, equipment and recruitment choices. The ultimate campaign goal for this player could also be decided based off this.
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas and Ruminations. Praag and Modular Warbands.   Sun 25 Aug 2013 - 17:53

Oh I like the archetypes!

Under Rogue you are missing brigands and thieves in your warband choices. The Arabian Thieves warband would certainly fit as would some of werekin's Mayhem in Marienburg warbands if you wished to check with him for the rules (this is speculation on my part, but seems likely.) The other thief or brigand warbands out there include: the Stirwood Outlaws which don't fit from my perspective, but might; and the Hochland bandits which might not be to your cup of tea (but you include Wood Elves in your lists so I would expect ANYONE to be welcome.)Suspect 

Finally you are missing PIRATES which is unacceptable. pirat 
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas and Ruminations. Praag and Modular Warbands.   Mon 26 Aug 2013 - 4:57

Haha! Yeah I totally forgot all the Brigands and Thieves!

I'll check out those Arabian rules.

The Archetypes will just determine your Warband leader. The Leader then determines the core structure of the warband, so the chances are the henchmen (who get killed off more frequently) will be of local stock.
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas and Ruminations. Praag and Modular Warbands.   Sat 31 Aug 2013 - 5:44

Some similar ideas to what I was going to impliment into MODheim if I ever get around to it lol.

Note: Modheim would NOT be based in teh warhammer universe (to allow MANY more races into the mix).

Incase it is of any help to you my ideas were:

Pick a starting warband.
Recruit heroes; the leader should be of your chosen warband, but the other heroes can be from allied nations.

Depending on the level of allies (e.g. how well alligned the races are) you can recruit 1+ heroes of that type each hero recruited brings with them a certain number of allowaces of henchmen of that race (just like you idea).

If the races are only barely allied then you may not recruit any heroes of that race but you may recruit a small number henchmen of that race (and by LGT you may end up with a hero).

Should the leader of the warband be killed then the next highest LD hero will take his place if that hero does not belong to the original warband there is a chance the warband will switch factions (method yet to be determined), possibly even agendas (this may also affect future warband recruitment as the new leader's faction may not be allied to a race that you already have members of).

Anyway, I think it's a really cool idea, please keep us updated on your progress.
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas and Ruminations. Praag and Modular Warbands.   Sat 31 Aug 2013 - 7:23

Hey Maxxev,

Just read up some of your MODheim stuff. I really like the Luck and Destiny ideas. I was thinking of taking some inspiration from earlier warhammer editions such as 3rd and introducing a larger stat line, and some of the spiritual ideas of 3rd (more races, greater emphasis on storyline and GMs etc).

At our previous club we introduced 'roleplay' points, which were awarded every week for having a fully painted warband, scenery, donuts etc. These were just re-rolls that could be awarded at any point in the game, and even other peoples games. You could force other players to re-roll good scores and so on. We saw this as gods causing divine randomness, and just added to the chaos of the whole thing.

I was thinking of some broader ideas a while back, like re-writing a core rulebook which would be generic to any setting. With it you would pick a companion 'setting' book (so Mordhiem, Praag, Lustria, or even an alternative fantasy setting). The companion book would be laid out in a strict format that allowed quick reference between itself and the core book.

The idea of alliances as way to structure a warband sounds good. It would provide a natural advantage to similar allignments, which could reflect the setting. I figured something similar, just with the added difficulty associated with recruiting locally (so high elves wouldn't be common in Kislev, forcing them to recruit local humans and maybe dwarfs out of desperation). Its all good stuff for generating narratives!
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas and Ruminations. Praag and Modular Warbands.   Sat 31 Aug 2013 - 7:37

* I really love your birdmen by the way. I've been following your various miniature exploits for a bit, and think all your stuff is great!
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas and Ruminations. Praag and Modular Warbands.   Sat 31 Aug 2013 - 9:11

Cheers.

To be fair the thngs I was most happy with in that rules set were the Weapons and Skills.
Everything else (with varying degrees of modifications) pretty much came from Mordheim or Coreheim with the exceptions of the Magic system and the Armour system. The spells needed more work but I thought the system was interesting, though I needed to get some playtesting done.

It would be great if there was a core rules book that the settings just added to, this was actually why I started "city of legend" (the idea originating with Mordheim but the rules progressing to any city). I would certainly contribute to that if someone decided to put it together.

My biggest issue is that I have a lot of enthusiasm and (IMO) some good ideas but I struggle to finish anything lol, i'm a colaborater type not a do it yourself type (one reason why I will never finish MODheim lol). I started with mordheim then modified so many rules I decided to take it out of the warhammer world, then went round and round in circles trying to figure out stats until I pretty much ended back at the warhammer stat line lol.

I even tried to go down the Warmachine rules route for a while, till it became abundantly obvious that some builds became pretty much invunerable with their Defence and Armour stats being basically too high to hit by the less skilled warriors, the GW system just lends a little more forgivness to less skilled warriors (that mordheim should be abundent with).
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas and Ruminations. Praag and Modular Warbands.   Today at 0:56

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