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 Lure of Chaos

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Aipha
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PostSubject: Lure of Chaos   Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 6:29

Am I the only one who haven't completely understood this spell?

Lure of Chaos 
The Chaos Mage calls upon the taint of chaos which exists in the inner soul of all living beings. The spell has a range of 12" and must be cast on the closest enemy model. Roll a D6 and add the Chaos Mage’s Leadership to the score. Then roll a D6 and add the target’s Leadership to the score. If the Chaos Mage beats his opponent’s score he gains control of the model until the model passes a Leadership test in his own recovery phase. The model may not commit suicide, but can attack models on his own side, and will not fight warriors from the Chaos Mage’s warband. If he was engaged in hand-to-hand combat with any warriors of the Chaos Mage’s warband, they will immediately move 1" apart.


So what happens if the opponent fails the D6 test?

A: You gain a free movement, shooting/magic and/or close combat phase for the victim
B: The victim operates in your turn now, meaning that if you control him in the shooting phase, then you get to cast/end spells, shoot or fight a close combat if he's in base-to-base with a fellow member of his own warband
C: You only get to do something, if he fails his leadership test in his following turn
D: Something else

I've played with B so far, but is this correct?
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: Lure of Chaos   Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 6:30

Bonus question: If B is correct, and he's in base-to-base contact with both someone from the mage's warband and another from his own, will he then still be moved 1" away, or just stay in close combat?
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Lure of Chaos   Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 7:33

This is indeed a messy spell.  I have played it as C, which meant I only got to control animals and skaven.  Quite often the Skaven would evade my control as well.

B would be nice, but would require some extra wording, like 'if a lured model is in base contact with a formerly friendly model it counts as charging' or 'it may fight that model striking in Intiative order as normal.'

Our current chaos player cast it once, realized it prevented his warriors from fighting the lured target and has not cast it since.
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PostSubject: Re: Lure of Chaos   Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 8:16

Answer B with some remarks:
The wording says clearly that you gain immediate control after beating the enemy warrior in that Ld challenge. This effect ends, as soon as the Ld check during recovery is passed. So you gain control in your shooting phase and the lured model may at least shoot/cast in that phase. However you fight enemies only in close combat by charging or being charged. Neither is possible during your shooting phase, thus you aren't in close combat even if there are (former) friendly models in btb contact.

We often use this spell to get rid of one-shot weapons/equipment like blunderbusses or fire-bombs.
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Lure of Chaos   Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 11:13

Quote :
The wording says clearly that you gain immediate control after beating the enemy warrior in that Ld challenge

The spell is quoted above.  If it were clear it wouldn't be so difficult to interpret.Very Happy

So under B, if they fail to pass a Ld test in their recovery phase do you wait to move them until your next movement phase or move in your opponent's turn?
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Aipha
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PostSubject: Re: Lure of Chaos   Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 11:21

Your own turn I'd say.

Alright, I still go with B, since otherwise it's close to useless, as your experience shows us Razz

I'll say it's pretty weird, that he moves out of close combat, but w/e. This means it's only useful on shooters, casters and animals out of range of the leader. 

So another question... Or more:

1. Can you release it at any time? (for instance if he's KD/stunned)
2. Is it gone if the target is KD/stunned, or must this KD/stunned target still try to pass a leadership test, even if he's unconcious? 
3. Can you control more than one at a time?


Last edited by Aipha on Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 11:24; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Had more questions)
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PostSubject: Re: Lure of Chaos   Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 11:49

There are very few specific rules for magic in the game and all the rules governing remains in play spells were added after the rulebook spells.
1. Nothing in the rulebook says you can or can't.  We play you can.
2. The target being KD/Stunned should not end the spell.  If he can't take a Ld test, the lured warrior can not throw off the effect of the spell.  If the caster is stunned or ooa the spell should end.
3. Yes.
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PostSubject: Re: Lure of Chaos   Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 12:41

The answer is B.

Although there is a limited amount of things a Chaos player can do to abuse his opponent before they (inevitably) pass a Leadership test in their next turn.
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PostSubject: Re: Lure of Chaos   Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 13:15

@Von Kurst
Many rules come clearer, if you don't worry about the intention and just read them as written. This normally helps me a lot in those incredibly dull 40k rule discussions on every other tournament. Smile
"f the Chaos Mage beats his opponent’s score he gains control of the model until the model passes a Leadership test in his own recovery phase."
In this case, you simply gain temporary control of the model right after beating the other player's score, which means you may use them like your own models until you loose that control again. 
This doesn't affect the rest of the game and thus you are of course not allowed to move or shoot during your enemy's turn.


@Aipha
GW's rulebooks normally base on allowing rules, so everything that isn't written in them or mentioned otherwise is not allowed. I would say you can't release the model on your own and the spell is neither gone if the target is knocked down/stunned nor if the sorcerer is knocked down, stunned or even ooa. The only mentioned way to end it is a successful Ld test.
I would encourage to end the spell as soon as the sorcerer leaves the table, but the rules don't say so.
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PostSubject: Re: Lure of Chaos   Fri 28 Jun 2013 - 8:40

@ Coppermind:

Totally agree.

I've been playing a Possessed warband in some recent games and this was the first spell my Magister picked up. In all honesty I didn't even think it needed explaining in depth, but as with a lot of things in Mordheim it can be interpreted different ways if I look at it from another point of view.

--------
I have been playing it as such, because it makes the most sense, following the rules as closely as possible:

- You take the model over in your shooting phase, therefore you can shoot/ cast spells with the enemy model in your turn, as per any other member of your warband.

- If he's in B2B with a member of his own warband they count as being in combat, though neither will count as charging.

- Whom moves apart from whom is dependent on the situation; if the Lured model has his back to a wall the other person is the one who moves an inch away, but if they were in the open then both move half an inch away from each other.

- You can't drop the spell as the only way to end it is the enemy model passing a Ld. test.

- If the target is stunned he still takes a Ld. test as normal to resist possession; in his turn he recovers from being unconscious, so would be returning to normal mental capacity, he'd just still be winded/ on the floor recovering physically.

- You can Lure multiple targets.
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PostSubject: Re: Lure of Chaos   Fri 28 Jun 2013 - 8:45

One question which came up in our games was:

Can a model under the influence of 'Lure' be made to walk/ charge off buildings (thus trying to damage them from the fall, rather than for the benefits of actually charging)?

It specifically mentions the model may not commit suicide, but I thought that would be to avoid the spell becoming a nastier 'Vision of Torment', that auto-KO'd a model, but I wondered (almost masochistically) what people on the internet thought of it :p
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PostSubject: Re: Lure of Chaos   Today at 12:33

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