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 Frenzy + Stupidity

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Pervavita
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PostSubject: Frenzy + Stupidity   Wed 13 Mar 2013 - 13:22

RB p.22 wrote:
Once they are within charge range, frenzied warriors are immune to all other psychology, such as fear and donít have to take these tests as long as they remain within charge range.

Does this mean that if a model suffers from stupidity but is also frenzied can ignore the roll for Stupidity for this turn?

I read this as yes but I want to make sure as in my current campaign I have a warrior with stupidity but I can give them Frenzy and want to see if I can bypass the stupidity rule.
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PostSubject: Re: Frenzy + Stupidity   Wed 13 Mar 2013 - 14:25

You test for stupidity at the start of recovery phase (before recovery phase to be precise), measuring charge range is made in movement phase, so I think stupidity test is unaffected.
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Pervavita
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PostSubject: Re: Frenzy + Stupidity   Wed 13 Mar 2013 - 14:49

Frenzy is a state of mind just as Stupidity is. The phase for it's effect is not per say when it is effected.
What I mean by this is the rule for Frenzy does not come into effect once you are in range but is always in effect.
Such as say I move my Frenzied warrior forward and he is now with in charge range but she was not before (start of turn was 12" away but now is 7" away) and is charged by a Vampire. Per the rules the Vampire requires a fear test but as he is in charge range the Frenzy status would be in effect and not need to roll for fear even though it is not durring there turn.
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PostSubject: Re: Frenzy + Stupidity   Wed 13 Mar 2013 - 16:54

I'd say that stupidity is negated... but as rule you have to mesure your charge after declaring so this can pose a problem.

Personnaly, I'd rule it this way.

If you think the stupid/frenzy model is in charge range, you can claim the immunity to stupidity. You then measure the distance and if reach the target all is fine.

However, if you fail to reach it, instead of moving halfway, you immediatly suffer from stupidity effect. (this would well represent the confusion of the twisted - deranged - mad model).

This way, claiming the immunity can lead to a trouble and you dont have to bypass the rules by measuring charge range before.


A simpler way to work it would be to simply offer the immunity while the model is engaged in close combat.


Hmm... I think I'd prefer the second option as its simpler... and simplicity rules !

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PostSubject: Re: Frenzy + Stupidity   Wed 13 Mar 2013 - 16:54

The recovery versus the movement phase is an interesting observation, however it just seems to add more confusion or at least redundance. So I test for Stupidity in recovery and then charge in movement? Frenzy is going to override Stupidity 'cause it says it does, so if a warrior can charge it must.

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PostSubject: Re: Frenzy + Stupidity   Wed 13 Mar 2013 - 20:47

Remember though, that Frenzy can be lost if the frenzied warrior is KD or Stunned. I'd play it like this: The Warrior's Frenzy trumps the Stupidity until it is lost, then Stupidity would take over.
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PostSubject: Re: Frenzy + Stupidity   Wed 13 Mar 2013 - 21:57

I agree with Spectre76. Frenzy would trump Stupidity.
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PostSubject: Re: Frenzy + Stupidity   Thu 14 Mar 2013 - 3:47

Ok, I see your point and agree. Sir, yes sir! Being fair, frenzied model cannot take advantage of "hatred" either since it's "other psychology". Am I right?
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PostSubject: Re: Frenzy + Stupidity   Thu 14 Mar 2013 - 5:55

If you are going to mention "hatred" then you should also mention "fear".
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PostSubject: Re: Frenzy + Stupidity   Thu 14 Mar 2013 - 7:35

Yes, all psychology as both are in this section. It is quite often that people take advantage of frenzy's immunities such as fear resistance (and stupidity) in accordance to "frenzy ignores all psychology", but strangely they ignore hatred which also is a psychological factor.
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PostSubject: Re: Frenzy + Stupidity   Thu 14 Mar 2013 - 9:59

Ok thank you.
But remember that a Frenzy model who has Hatred who gets knocked down will be able to stand up and still have hatred.

So as a good way to play this would be:

Roll stupidity (don't apply results yet).
Declare Charge
Mesure Charge; if too far then apply stupidity results.

Would that be a good way to do things?

Or should it be:
Roll Stupidity and apply results
Declare Charges... if charge is failed then just stand still

or some other?

The rules seam to imply that you would mesure distance before Stupidity test as the rules state you don't take any test if with in charge range.... so how do you know you don't test unless you messure first?
Sounds counter to other rules but it seams that's how it would work.

So declare charge (for Frenzy/Stupid warrior only), mesure, then roll stupidity if it would be a failed charge seams to be the way to go.

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PostSubject: Re: Frenzy + Stupidity   Thu 14 Mar 2013 - 12:19

Quote :
But remember that a Frenzy model who has Hatred who gets knocked down will be able to stand up and still have hatred.
That's right.
Quote :
So declare charge (for Frenzy/Stupid warrior only), mesure, then roll stupidity if it would be a failed charge seams to be the way to go.
That's the best explenation. If someone sees it as too complicated I'd advise using simple warhammer "frenzy":
"Frenzied units are immune to psychology as long as they are frenzied".
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PostSubject: Re: Frenzy + Stupidity   Thu 14 Mar 2013 - 14:41

[quote="catachanfrog"]
Quote :
If someone sees it as too complicated I'd advise using simple warhammer "frenzy":
"Frenzied units are immune to psychology as long as they are frenzied".

This is the best way to go about it, IMO. It simplifies things tremendously, and leaves little to interpretation.
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PostSubject: Re: Frenzy + Stupidity   Today at 9:03

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