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 Best way to introduce new players to the warhammer world?

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Uncle Deadly



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PostSubject: Best way to introduce new players to the warhammer world?   Mon 25 Feb 2013 - 22:59

I have a couple of friends who are wargamers, but who have never played any of the GW games. They have seen them played, and understand bits of the fluff tangentially but do not really know the setting. They are interested in playing Mordheim with me but I would like to give them more background on the world, especially the Empire, as Mordheim is a very setting/fluff based game. Can anyone recommend a website, wiki, even one of the WFRP books that they think provides a good baseline for introducing people to the Empire and the Old World?
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to introduce new players to the warhammer world?   Tue 26 Feb 2013 - 0:19

How about the Ulli & Marquand Mordheim graphic novel?

Quick and easy read which covers many of the Mordheim factions. OOP, but you can find copies cheap on Ebay or Amazon.
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to introduce new players to the warhammer world?   Tue 26 Feb 2013 - 0:42

Well, there certainly are wiki-entries for both Mordheim and Warhammer. If your task was mine, I'd probably go with the Lore-Book (don't know if this is what it is called in english) that was part of the 5th Edition WHFB-Starterbox. That one introduced me into the WH-world (along with the first Felix & Gotrek novels). Don't know if you have something like that or can get it for cheap.
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to introduce new players to the warhammer world?   Tue 26 Feb 2013 - 2:53

Go for whfb rulebook - there's a "background section" for every race, history... For empire - 6ed-7ed army books. There's "Sigmar's Heirs" book for WH rpg totally about empire. looks like this:


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PostSubject: Re: Best way to introduce new players to the warhammer world?   Tue 26 Feb 2013 - 11:07

Ulli & Marquand is a good idea. Perhaps an anthology collection from BL, I recommend Zavant (not an anthology...) reading the Mordheim rulebook might be a good bet, all the short snippets of info, the artwork it all combines to help give that millenial doomsday feel.

For 40k I would recommend Eisenhorn omnibus.
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to introduce new players to the warhammer world?   Tue 26 Feb 2013 - 14:31

I don't think that U&M reflects warhammer world best. This is a comic about Mordheim from their (twisted/greedy/wurderous/perverted...) perspective - you cannot find much info about wh world here.
If your friends aren't lazy (if they are, they won't last long anyway - no matter what you do),as Grimscull advised before, give them the quintesence of warhammer world in the form of it's most famous saga - Gotrek and Felix!
If they are, show them the intro to Mark of Chaos - that should do the job Laughing

Quote :
For 40k I would recommend Eisenhorn omnibus.
But there's only about 20 pages with space marines - and WH40k IS space marines! What a Face
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to introduce new players to the warhammer world?   Tue 26 Feb 2013 - 14:42

f**k space marines!

Anyway the rpg books are great but might be a little heavy for newbies. Perhaps it might be best to do it chronologically. Start with wfb 1st edition and work your way forward. tongue

To me U&M shows the truth of mordheim and the empire, its seedy and corrupted underbelly that it tries so hard to ignore. The Empire is nasty and no lies Karl-Franz and his crew spin will change that.
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to introduce new players to the warhammer world?   Tue 26 Feb 2013 - 15:55

Quote :
To me U&M shows the truth of mordheim and the empire, its seedy and corrupted underbelly that it tries so hard to ignore. The Empire is nasty and no lies Karl-Franz and his crew spin will change that.
Ok, so you're comparing ruined city, full of mutants, demons, xenos (orcs,skaven,blabla...), lunatics, psychopats, mass murderers who are law to themselves, fighting for chaos originated stones to the whole empire? U&M comic shows empire in the broken mirror and definitely is not its representation.How is it that empire lasted 2500+ years? Every good warhammer nation is screwed in some way - only that Empire is most succesful, largest and progressive when compared to others. And with Karl-Franz as a president is better than ever.

Quote :
f**k space marines!
What, you're kinda marine hater? why?
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to introduce new players to the warhammer world?   Wed 27 Feb 2013 - 3:03

I don't want to go too much of topic since this is about introducing Mordheim to new players.

catachanfrog wrote:
Quote :
To me U&M shows the truth of mordheim and the empire, its seedy and corrupted underbelly that it tries so hard to ignore. The Empire is nasty and no lies Karl-Franz and his crew spin will change that.
Ok, so you're comparing ruined city, full of mutants, demons, xenos (orcs,skaven,blabla...), lunatics, psychopats, mass murderers who are law to themselves, fighting for chaos originated stones to the whole empire? U&M comic shows empire in the broken mirror and definitely is not its representation.How is it that empire lasted 2500+ years? Every good warhammer nation is screwed in some way - only that Empire is most succesful, largest and progressive when compared to others. And with Karl-Franz as a president is better than ever.

The great thing about Warhammer and 40k is that it is what you want it to be. I believe the Empire is a thoroughly oppressive realm that somehow survives despite constantly standing on the edge of ruin. It certainly isn't progressive in anything except warfare. Born different and you die, believe different and you die. This view is based on reading lots of BL books, for example, Swords of the Emperor, Ancient Blood, Curse of the Necrarch, Konrad, Zavant, Gotrek and Felix, Broken Honour, Vampire Wars trilogy and many more.

The Empire is successful and large in the same sense that Oceania is successful and large. But if you want to see it as a realm suitable for high adventure then you definitely should. It can be what ever you want it to be Smile

catachanfrog wrote:

Quote :
f**k space marines!
What, you're kinda marine hater? why?

Hate is too strong a word. Don't waste good hate on hobby stuff, save it for the real world Wink

I like the idea behind space marines but they have jumped way over the shark by now. Perhaps I'm just too old to think it is cool when grey knights slaughter nuns or marenus calgar knocks out an avatar. They just aren't my cup of tea in the current format. So I mostly view their so called exploits as Imperial / Chaos propaganda.
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to introduce new players to the warhammer world?   Wed 27 Feb 2013 - 3:22

I think BL wrote a book called "Tales of Old World" that collected around 20 different short stories, it culd be useful
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to introduce new players to the warhammer world?   Wed 27 Feb 2013 - 11:16

@Alex
Quote :
I like the idea behind space marines but they have jumped way over the shark by now. Perhaps I'm just too old to think it is cool when grey knights slaughter nuns or marenus calgar knocks out an avatar. They just aren't my cup of tea in the current format. So I mostly view their so called exploits as Imperial / Chaos propaganda.
I agree with your point. But that's about horrible/incompetent fanboy style stories of people like Matt Ward or James Swallow who's every book is an insult to the Blood Angels fans. I've been following warhammer since 4/5 ed and 40k since 3 ed and I don't like what is happening to it now, as it is ruined by stupid tales of above mentioned like authors (or rules writers).

Quote :
The great thing about Warhammer and 40k is that it is what you want it to be. I believe the Empire is a thoroughly oppressive realm that somehow survives despite constantly standing on the edge of ruin. It certainly isn't progressive in anything except warfare. Born different and you die, believe different and you die. This view is based on reading lots of BL books, for example, Swords of the Emperor, Ancient Blood, Curse of the Necrarch, Konrad, Zavant, Gotrek and Felix, Broken Honour, Vampire Wars trilogy and many more.

The Empire is successful and large in the same sense that Oceania is successful and large. But if you want to see it as a realm suitable for high adventure then you definitely should. It can be what ever you want it to be Smile

I don't like "wh is whatever you like" stuff. It leads to many stupid ideas of people who are not familiar with the background but are trying to compensate it with their weird vision of the wh world. Halfelves, vampire dwarves, good chaos warriors and so on. "Because that can happen". Bullshit...
Yes, Empire and Imperium is opressive - the only way it can continue its existence. And by different you mean what? vampires, mutants and unlicensed wizards (they are not killed anyway)? That sound's like Chaos cult propaganda! I read all of the titles you named (except Ancient Blood and Konrad - or probably read it long ago). In fact all this books justify cleansing Empire land and society of creatures such as mutants, vampires, beastmen. Have you read "Enemy Within"? Fine book about chaos cult (minor) of Tzeentch. They use almost the same argument why Empire is bad. tongue (unless "different" has other meaning). And when talking of religion there are many gods worshipped by the people of the Empire and really, if what you say about "one faith" is true, let's say Middenheim should be razed to the ground long ago.
I am aware that main technological achievments of the Empire are military ones but, hey, that's what warhammer is about (and we don't know much about other stuff). Empire is surely more civilised and better governed than Brettonia. I have one fragment from "Guardians of the Forest" that perfectly (imo) reflects Brettonian climate:
Quote :
“...And I told you that I didn’t care,” she said with a smile. “I’ve grown tired of this gown anyway.
My ladies tell me that red is very passé for this time of year and that you should be buying me
something in lavender next season.”
“Oh they do, do they?” said Leofric. “Then the peasantry must work harder next year to pay for
it.”
“Indeed they shall,” said Helene and they laughed, not noticing the pained looks on the men-atarms’
faces at their overheard conversation.
Smile
And it is Brettonia that has strict and closed caste system - if you're not born noble you eat mud entire life.

But I agree with you about Empire beeing constantly on the brink of destruction - it's the intention of wh world-makers. I don't like it and it's a bit stupid but that's a setting of this universe: realm besieged from all sides by somehow still standing.
Sorry for long post - I hope I was not offensive. Sir, yes sir!


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PostSubject: Re: Best way to introduce new players to the warhammer world?   Wed 27 Feb 2013 - 13:11

I'm not the biggest fluff fan in the WH world. Meaning I don't follow it vary well as I just have enough time to follow it as there are things I would much rather spend my time on.
That being said I think the graphic Novel may be the best easy intro for people as though scewed it introduces the players to Mordheim. If they have more time/desire they will want to expand.
I think the best intro is always something simple to catch attention and see where that goes.
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to introduce new players to the warhammer world?   Thu 28 Feb 2013 - 15:46

I think the coolest idea behind Mordheim is the idea that no matter what your place in society is, there is that chance to make a name/fortune for yourself, even though it is EXTREMELY risky. Yes, the Empire and Bretonnia are vast, powerful, and corrupt, with little in the way of upward mobility for its people. Yet with the prospect of fast fortune that can be found in Mordheim, even a petty bandit criminal can rise to power and influence. Probably why I named my first warband, "The Fortune Hunters".
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to introduce new players to the warhammer world?   Sat 2 Mar 2013 - 12:32

catachanfrog wrote:
@Alex
Quote :
I like the idea behind space marines but they have jumped way over the shark by now. Perhaps I'm just too old to think it is cool when grey knights slaughter nuns or marenus calgar knocks out an avatar. They just aren't my cup of tea in the current format. So I mostly view their so called exploits as Imperial / Chaos propaganda.
I agree with your point. But that's about horrible/incompetent fanboy style stories of people like Matt Ward or James Swallow who's every book is an insult to the Blood Angels fans. I've been following warhammer since 4/5 ed and 40k since 3 ed and I don't like what is happening to it now, as it is ruined by stupid tales of above mentioned like authors (or rules writers).

Lets agree the space marines need better writers Smile

Alex wrote:
Quote :
The great thing about Warhammer and 40k is that it is what you want it to be. I believe the Empire is a thoroughly oppressive realm that somehow survives despite constantly standing on the edge of ruin. It certainly isn't progressive in anything except warfare. Born different and you die, believe different and you die. This view is based on reading lots of BL books, for example, Swords of the Emperor, Ancient Blood, Curse of the Necrarch, Konrad, Zavant, Gotrek and Felix, Broken Honour, Vampire Wars trilogy and many more.

The Empire is successful and large in the same sense that Oceania is successful and large. But if you want to see it as a realm suitable for high adventure then you definitely should. It can be what ever you want it to be Smile

catachanfrog wrote:
I don't like "wh is whatever you like" stuff. It leads to many stupid ideas of people who are not familiar with the background but are trying to compensate it with their weird vision of the wh world. Halfelves, vampire dwarves, good chaos warriors and so on. "Because that can happen". Bullshit...

Well... it could happen, IF you make a cool miniature and play with it, otherwise it's a moot point to argue. This isn't dungeons and dragons after all. One shouldn't go crazy... Just because something "could happen" doesn't mean it should happen. Follow the fluff as guidelines not absolutes

catachanfrog wrote:
Yes, Empire and Imperium is opressive - the only way it can continue its existence. And by different you mean what? vampires, mutants and unlicensed wizards (they are not killed anyway)? That sound's like Chaos cult propaganda!

Lol! I was thinking more like different = social reformer (Manslayer book), born different, are you a mutant just because you are born deformed? Of course this is a game and not real world so it is simplified. The game can't be as complex as the real 16th - 18th century was Smile

catachanfrog wrote:
I read all of the titles you named (except Ancient Blood and Konrad - or probably read it long ago). In fact all this books justify cleansing Empire land and society of creatures such as mutants, vampires, beastmen. Have you read "Enemy Within"? Fine book about chaos cult (minor) of Tzeentch. They use almost the same argument why Empire is bad. tongue

Cool to see that the BL books are popular here, some are tosh but some are rather good. Tzeentch and I do believe in the same ways Wink

catachanfrog wrote:
And when talking of religion there are many gods worshipped by the people of the Empire and really, if what you say about "one faith" is true, let's say Middenheim should be razed to the ground long ago.


I don't think I said anything about one religion? I meant that the churches are very strict and the people aren't really allowed to truly choose other gods than the sanctioned ones, you can't worship Tzeentch.

catachanfrog wrote:
"Guardians of the Forest" that perfectly (imo) reflects Brettonian climate:
Quote :
“...And I told you that I didn’t care,” she said with a smile. “I’ve grown tired of this gown anyway.
My ladies tell me that red is very passé for this time of year and that you should be buying me
something in lavender next season.”
“Oh they do, do they?” said Leofric. “Then the peasantry must work harder next year to pay for
it.”
“Indeed they shall,” said Helene and they laughed, not noticing the pained looks on the men-atarms’ faces at their overheard conversation.
Smile And it is Brettonia that has strict and closed caste system - if you're not born noble you eat mud entire life.

Hah! Brettonia is a funny realm, it used to be really pitch dark, then Stillman came along with the arthur cycles and turned it light and now it is slowly slipping down into darkness again. I don't really care too much about the fey knights and their serf-peasants. They don't spark my interest like the Empire.

catachanfrog wrote:
Sorry for long post - I hope I was not offensive. Sir, yes sir!

No worries man! It is all good debate to me. I always enjoy hearing different views, even if we see differently on the stuff Smile
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