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 Choppas in Mordheim

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gorenut
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PostSubject: Choppas in Mordheim   Mon 18 Feb 2013 - 23:49

I think so far, the best overall rules I found for Mordheim is possibly Dribble Joy's idea (along with other contributions).

Essentially its a weapon that grants +1 str for the 1st round of combat and costs 15GC.

It's also considered Rare 6

I was thinking, would it be too overpowered if it was just a common weapon for Orcs? I'm also going by the rules that if you dual wield, your off-hand attack is at -1 to hit (with the exception of daggers). I was thinking of further nerfing it by making Choppas an additional -1 to hit if used as an off-hand weapon, showing the difficulty in swinging such a crude and heavy weapon. What do you guys think? Is the last rule necessary?
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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 2:45

Well,

It looks like a morningstar to me. Its all right, as choppa should be both heavy and difficult to use.

In our games, when you fight with 2 weapons, all attacks you do are at -1 to hit. So the rule doesnt change anything for me.

Personnaly, in order to make it different to the morningstar, I'd raise his price to 20GC, make it rare 8 and give him +1 on critical hits.

But youre on th good path.

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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 5:19

We just us a mix of Morning Stars and Clubs, depending on taste... The Orcs refer to all weapons as choppas since the 8th edition Army Book was published.
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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 5:27

Well, for race that live only for warfare, they could have a different name for each weapon... and even more!

As a linguist, I know its pretty improbable that orcs have just a few word to describe weapons... logically, they should have a lot of words for red (blood's color), slaughters, violence, war...

LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 9:55

I was under the impression that morning stars require 2 hands (but you can still use shield). I guess thats the difference between this and the morning star since you can dual wield Choppas.

Another member from the Warseer forum says he's been playing Orcs with an innate ability built in where Orcs can turn anything into a "Choppa" - essentially making it so Orcs strike +1 str first round of combat. He says he just made it so each Orc costs +10 pts and +15 pts for heroes. Not sure how fair that actually is, but he says he's already done whole campaigns without much change in outcome (especially since he wasn't able to get as many Orcs in the beginning). Sounds fluffy, but it seems like just creating an individual weapon would be easier to balance.
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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 11:28

The Black Orcs warband have Choppas and it specifies in there starting equipment roster:
Choppas (Count as Morning Star) 15GC

Not as fluffy as creating there own unique rules but it works.
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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 12:03

Yea.. the problem with just using it as a morning star is that you can't dual wield em.
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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 12:04

Then you cold creqate a special skill for orcs that permit it !!!
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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 12:10

Thats probably a good way to fix that. Choppas I don't think would be that hard for Orcs to make so wouldn't need a Rare roll and as they give a bonus like the +1 strength in first round of combat they are rather good so a skill to dual wield seams to fix that.
so henchmen can't do it, not a big deal. henchmen can't do a lot of the cool stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 12:37

So do you guys think just making it common, 15GC, +1 str first round of combat, 1 handed is balanced?

Remember again.. this is taking into consideration that our house rules is that off hand is hitting at -1 to hit
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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 12:38

Well, the old Pit fighters have a similar skill that permit them to carry 2 difficult to use weapons... soooo....
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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 13:05

So long as it takes a skill to do so I don't see a problem with it until you play test it.
Morning stars aren't exactly common in the game as it is now so I don't see how it would break the game my self.
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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 13:42

WEll, I face an ogre warband that use them with the iron fist (theres a skill in the ogre list that permit it)... pretty dangerous weapons ! Yet, not overpowered .. but in the hands of an ogre .. ITS POWERFUL !!!
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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 14:41

Ok, perhaps to make things simple.. i'm just gonna give all the Orcs a built-in skill that they can use morning stars with 1 hand. Think it should be fair seeing morning stars are rarely ever used anyways. Seems overpriced and this way its pretty fluffy that the Orcs have an innate ability built in to separate themselves from a human with the same strength.

Maybe even take this further and ignore all "Difficult to Use" traits. Only other weapon I can think of that has this are scythes and I never see them used either.. so i think it'd be a safe bet even without adding additional points. Seems like both weapons are overpriced anyways.
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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 15:00

I think that would be too good. Little combat gets past the first round of h2h and with a +1 strength in both hands can be huge if it's on all models. Thats why I said make it a skill.
If your not sure about making it a full on skill maybe still make it a skill that a few guys start with like the Swordsmen in the Merc warband. This would allow you to test it limitedly in a middle ground to see if it's too strong or too weak and adjust as needed.

when changing rules a lot of the time it's better to error on the side of to week then too strong.
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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 15:02

What if I were to make it so if the "Choppa" ability is used on the off-hand it gets further -1 to hit?
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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 15:20

Personnaly, I avoid adding rules unless necessary because I feel the game balance is out (2 weapon fighting/armours were the two main areas where the game needed houseruling).

I think its simpler to consider the choppa as a morning star and then give a skill to orcs so they can use two choppa at once with -1 to hit penalty for both.

But that is MY perception.. If you feel you should do otherwise, do it so you have fun !
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PostSubject: Re: Choppas in Mordheim   Tue 19 Feb 2013 - 16:48

Very true.. I'll definitely have to find a proper way to implement this. I guess I can possibly make it so only heroes have it. Maybe Big Uns and Boss starts off with it and its a trait that gets automatically added once a henchman gets TLGT.
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