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 problem with henchmen advance rolls

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catachanfrog
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PostSubject: problem with henchmen advance rolls   Sat 2 Feb 2013 - 9:54

What happens when beastmen/ flagellants/ ghouls/ ruffians/ darksouls/ogre henchmen already have +1 WS advance but their next roll on the exp table is again "choose +1 WS or +1 BS"?
a) Do they have to take that useless characteristic point?
b) They roll again?
All of henchmen groups above (ruffians excluded, not only lack any shooty equip. but cannot even acquire shooting skills later (LGT). I see no reason why hth henchmen only should take +1 BS, it's not fair and illogical besides I found no official clarification about this matter.
How do you solve this problem?
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Spectre76
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PostSubject: Re: problem with henchmen advance rolls   Sat 2 Feb 2013 - 9:57

I understand your frustrations, but if a WS/BS roll is done a second time, then that group MUST take the BS advance, even if they cannot use it.
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Pervavita
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PostSubject: Re: problem with henchmen advance rolls   Sat 2 Feb 2013 - 10:15

Spectre76 is right. It sucks but it's the rules.

I would fully support a house rule for this though as it hurts those henchmen a lot to get that advancement... and heroes in the same case too.
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Alex
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PostSubject: Re: problem with henchmen advance rolls   Sat 2 Feb 2013 - 11:04

Pervavita wrote:
Spectre76 is right. It sucks but it's the rules.

I would fully support a house rule for this though as it hurts those henchmen a lot to get that advancement... and heroes in the same case too.

I would absolutely allow them a reroll. It isn't fun for anyone when that kind of stupid shit happens.
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catachanfrog
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PostSubject: Re: problem with henchmen advance rolls   Sat 2 Feb 2013 - 11:16

I'm just looking at henchmen advancment table and I think I found the way What a Face
Quote :
Henchmen never add more than +1 point to any of their
initial characteristics. If the dice roll indicates an increase
in a characteristic which has already been increased (or
is at its racial maximum), roll again until an unincreased
charateristic is rolled.
and
Quote :
6-7 Advance. Choose either +1 BS or +1WS.
So: My fighty henchman rolls for advance. He gets "6-7" advance and chooses WS. After two battles he acumulated enough experience to roll again: "6-7" once more. Note, that rules says "choose either WS or BS". I don't have to choose BS and since his WS is already "maxed" i can roll again.
I think it's perfectly legal to do so - if WS and BS would be separated (ant hey are not), I would agree that it is a problem.
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PostSubject: Re: problem with henchmen advance rolls   Sat 2 Feb 2013 - 19:20

You may have something here. I'll try it out on my mob - who always make my flagellants take the BS advance - next time.
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Lord 0
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PostSubject: Re: problem with henchmen advance rolls   Wed 6 Feb 2013 - 0:57

Catachanfrog's opinion matches mine, so he is obviously a person of high intelligence and distinction and definitely worth heeding.

Honestly though, that way is the way my group has interpreted the rules since the beginning and it never occurred to us to do it otherwise. Going over the rules again I can't see anything about it saying you *must* take the other stat rolled at all so if you were told so, then I think someone is inventing rules to screw you over. Probably in the name of 'the spirit of the game' or some other unholy reason like that. You have to watch that kind of player - they are the darkest of all souls.

Alternatively, they may simply be misapplying the rules for what to do if your warrior is at its *racial* maximum which are a bit later in the rule-book. They could be remembering this sentence: "If a characteristic is at its maximum, take the other option or roll again if you can only increase one characteristic.", but the thing is, that is part of this paragraph:
"characteristic increase
Characteristics for certain warriors may not be increased beyond the maximum limits shown on the following profiles. If a characteristic is at its maximum, take the other option or roll again if you can only increase one characteristic. If both are already at their racial maximum, you may increase any other (that is not already at its racial maximum) by +1 instead. Note that this is the only way to gain the maximum Movement for some races. Remember that Henchmen can only add +1 to any characteristic."

As you can see, the 'maximum' the sentence is referring to is the *racial* maximum not the henchman maximum of starting-stat-plus-one.

By now you have probably sorted all this with your group one way or the other, but I hope this helps.
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Pervavita
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PostSubject: Re: problem with henchmen advance rolls   Wed 6 Feb 2013 - 14:55

Reading the rules and your explination of it I still would play it "per the rules" the same way as you "must take the +1BS".
Quote :
If a characteristic is at its maximum, take the other option or roll again if you can only increase one characteristic
This is the line that leads to that statement as it says you must take the other option (thus +1BS) or roll again if the other option you can't take (IE it's already maxed out or there is some rule saying you can not take it).
The following line exempts the "maxed out" rule allowing you to take any stat boost you want.

edit:
I re read the rule again (and again) and I see what your saying in there now.
Yes I agree with this interpritation and seems more in lines with the "the spirit of the game"

I would say my reasoning before is that I read the rule long ago and that was the way I understood the rule and then when reading here (when you quoted it) I defaulted to my normal interpritation of the rule and could not read past that.
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PostSubject: Re: problem with henchmen advance rolls   Today at 4:24

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