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Seeric
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PostSubject: Lahmian Sisterhood Warband   Fri 25 Jan 2013 - 8:59

Hallo again Mordheimers,

today I bring you the Beta-Version of my Lahmian Sisterhood Warband.



https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_ONFEJ0F4bZZDRRUThNdWVodTQ/edit



Unhappy with the approach of already existing Lahmian Warbands that are rather "Khemri" in style I wanted to design a Lahmian warband that is dependant on mortal servants rather than undead. The idea was to design a warband that plays kinda like Mercenaries with a twist, has cool and expensive heroes and lots of options for customization.

I already did a test game against a Gunnery School of Nuln Warband. Knowing what I was up against I took a Misstress, two Blooddaughters and alot of cheap stuff to eat up the gunfire (5 Bloodswain Retainers with Clubs and Daggers, 5 Black Hounds).

My oponent fielded eight models, all equipped with muskets (the hero had some kind of volleygun).

Luck was on my side since the map was full of buildings and I got to choose my tableedge. After lots of running from cover to cover, when I finally moved into the open, my Hounds took his fire like champs and allowed my Trio Infernale (Misstress, Lahmian Swordswoman and Dark Acolythe) to smash right into his gunline. One hand-to-hand combat later I had taken two handgunners out of action and the enemy warband failed its rout test in the subsequent turn.
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Lahmian Sisterhood Warband   Fri 25 Jan 2013 - 11:17

Quote :
You need permission to access this item.
The old Khemri Lahmian list has two options one for native Khemri Lahmians and one for Old World campaigns with human servitors replacing the Wights.
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PostSubject: Re: Lahmian Sisterhood Warband   Fri 25 Jan 2013 - 17:20

Von Kurst wrote:
Quote :
You need permission to access this item.

Sorry about that, I am new to google documents. The list should now be accesssible for anyone on the web.
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PostSubject: Re: Lahmian Sisterhood Warband   Sat 26 Jan 2013 - 7:33

No problem, getting used to the new Google is something I haven't done yet either. Works now.

Wow! When you go over the top you go!

The original Khemri Lahmians can be a bit mean, but your lot are real killers. I would suggest toning everything back. Just because the other heroes are vampires is no reason to give them 2 attacks for example. Also you have basically taken strengths of other warbands, a strong hero, a shooty hero, a magic user, good shooting henchmen, skilled close combat henchmen and given one warband all of those strengths. This is an understandable impulse, but not good game balance.

Heroes: This may be a given in your mind, but how many heroes may your warband start with? If it is listed I missed it. As I read it you could start with all of those yummy, killy choices. If you intend on such strong heroes, 4 at start is a good template to follow, but most warbands with strong heroes are not as strong as these. Also elite warbands limit the maximum numbers of warriors to 12.

For reference I would check out the Necrarch list, the original Tomb Guardian list from the Khemri site and the original Khemri Lahmian list (which youi have obviously used, but I think you could give it a re-read with an eye to what makes it more balanced.)
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PostSubject: Re: Lahmian Sisterhood Warband   Sat 26 Jan 2013 - 8:36

Hey, thank you for your feedback.

My thoughts on balancing:

Vampires: Vampires should have two attacks from a fluffy point of view. They move alot faster than mortals. The Mistress and the Heiress are considerably weaker than a standard vampire, simply for the fact that they can get no equipment. That means, two attacks will actually be two attacks on the battlefield. The Dark Acolythe is also weaker than a standard vampire, since she only has T3 and 1 wound. I don`t want to change statlines, but am willing to raise the gold cost if playtesting shows that the warband is overpowered.

Heroes: I might not have been very clear about that. In choice of warriors it says you must take a Mistress and are allowed to take two Blooddaughters and two Bloodswain Champions for a total of five.

General warband design: The thing is this: While the heroes are top of the crop, henchmen are not so much. Standard henchmen (Bloodswain Retainers) are really weak. They have low WS, BS and Leadership and no redeeming qualities besides being cheap. If you want to take Bloodswain Guards, which are the equivalent to standard Mercs, you need to take the Household Guard Captain, limiting your options. I could reduce the Huntsmens BS to 3, that would make them the equivalent of mercenary Marksmen, but in that case my first impulse would be to decrease their price to 25 gc.

The weakness of the warband that caused me to set the limt of models at 15 is twofold: Henchman are subpar and Devotion can screw you over in a big way, if your oppnent uses it against you. Also, the warband is horrible at shooting if you do not include a Master of the Hunt. And if you want to start with five heroes you gonna spend almost all your starting money on them.
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PostSubject: Re: Lahmian Sisterhood Warband   Mon 28 Jan 2013 - 1:49

I have to agree with Von Kurst. This warband is utterly overpowered, albeit very fluffy. Vampires are supposed to be much more powerful than mere mortals, with supreme reflexes and speed. Mordheim is unfortunately a game, where warbands that have an edge from the start tend to fast forward ahead of the other warbands in a campaign. Having extraordinary ranged, melee, and toughness is a bit too much.

From a fluff point of view. What about changing the focus of the warband; the leader is a blood sister and the bloodsisters are fledgeling vampires (with the S and T and I boost, but with lower WS, BS, W and A characteristics. Also, you shouldn't have any characters except the leader with a higher BS than 3. Having a BS of 4 is Reiklanders ONLY advantage and they don't have any models above S or T 3! Also consider that the Undead warband only have 1 (non animal) model with an S of above 3, and they instead have an edge in fear causing and magic! So loosing the mage in your list might be a good idea. If you want one for fluff reasons, hire a warlock instead, they are avaliable to everyone.

I realise I might have come off as a bit hostile, which was not intended. It's just a very powerful list you have created that in my humble opinion needs a bit tweaking to be on par with the official warbands.

Cheers and good luck!
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PostSubject: Re: Lahmian Sisterhood Warband   Mon 28 Jan 2013 - 4:28

Hrimfar wrote:
I have to agree with Von Kurst. This warband is utterly overpowered, albeit very fluffy. Vampires are supposed to be much more powerful than mere mortals, with supreme reflexes and speed. Mordheim is unfortunately a game, where warbands that have an edge from the start tend to fast forward ahead of the other warbands in a campaign. Having extraordinary ranged, melee, and toughness is a bit too much.

From a fluff point of view. What about changing the focus of the warband; the leader is a blood sister and the bloodsisters are fledgeling vampires (with the S and T and I boost, but with lower WS, BS, W and A characteristics. Also, you shouldn't have any characters except the leader with a higher BS than 3. Having a BS of 4 is Reiklanders ONLY advantage and they don't have any models above S or T 3! Also consider that the Undead warband only have 1 (non animal) model with an S of above 3, and they instead have an edge in fear causing and magic! So loosing the mage in your list might be a good idea. If you want one for fluff reasons, hire a warlock instead, they are avaliable to everyone.

I realise I might have come off as a bit hostile, which was not intended. It's just a very powerful list you have created that in my humble opinion needs a bit tweaking to be on par with the official warbands.

Cheers and good luck!

Hey, thank you for your feedback. No, I didn`t had the impression of you being hostile, I don`t get upset by constructive criticism... Wink

Had another two test games yesterday, one against Bretonians and one against Dwarfen Treasure Hunters.

In both games I fielded the kind of warband I would use in a campaign: 5 Heroes (Mistress, Swordswoman with Sword and Dagger, Dark Acolythe with Sword and Dagger, Household Guard Captain with Sword, Dagger and Duelling Pistol, Master of the Hunt with Sword, Dagger and Longbow) + 3 Black Hounds.

First game against Bretons I got annihilated. There was much luck involved for the Bretons, but they ate me alife, their Questing Knight alone taking out 6 (!) of my models, earning two level ups. Lost the entire warband, took two Knights Errant out of action.

Second game against Treasure Hunters was just the other way around. In a fierce melee I crushed the dwarfs thanks to alot of crits, took out every single one of their models while only losing two hounds myself.

First game was incredibly unlucky, with their Questing Knight managing to cast a Difficulty 10 Spell twice in a row and thereby taking my best models (Mistress and Swordswoman) out of action. Especially the second game, where I utterly crushed the dwarfes which are supposed to be good in melee gave me the feeling my warband is overpowered. I am going to make some nerfs, but most will be in the gold cost department since I want to keep the flavour and basic idea of the warband. I am going to keep you guys updated on my progress.
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PostSubject: Re: Lahmian Sisterhood Warband   Mon 28 Jan 2013 - 5:13

New list:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_ONFEJ0F4bZUTV3b1gzbFZkTGM/edit

v0.9.1 changes:

Special Rules:

Flexible Morality added

Henchmen Groups without a Leader added

Heroes:

Added another Bloodswain Champion, Master of the Kennels

Lahmian Swordswoman: Gold Cost increased from 90 to 110

Dark Acolythe: Gold Cost increased from 75 to 85

Heiress: Gold Cost increased from 60 to 75

Knightly Retainer: Gold Cost increase from 60 to 75

Household Guard Captain Ballistic Skill decreased from 4 to 3

Henchmen:

Bloodswain Hunters: Ballistic Skill decreased from 4 to 3, Gold Cost decereased from 30 to 25

Black Hounds: Movement Increased from 7 to 8, Strenth decreased from 4 to 3, Leadership decreased from 7 to 5

Spells:

Boiling Blood: Difficulty increased, Strength decreased

Blood Frenzy: Effect duration decreased
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PostSubject: Re: Lahmian Sisterhood Warband   Wed 6 Feb 2013 - 18:28

Recently I had another testgame, this time against Dwarf Rangers. I fielded a different warband this time:

Mistress
Heiress
Master of the Hunt (Crossbow+Sword+Dagger)
Master of the Kennels (Sword+Dagger)
3 Bloodswain Huntsmen (Crossbow+Sword+Dagger)
2 Black Hounds

Scenario: Streetfight

I got to choose my tableedge which was lucky, because on one end of the street there was a bottleneck that my enemy might have used to his advantage. My opponent fielded 7 models, a Troll Slayer, a Runesmith with Gromril Armor, three longbeards with axe and shields and two crossbowmen. Not what I would have choosen, but whatever. Fairly early on I was ambushed by three Flagelants with flails thanks to a random event, but took them out without casulties. Then we both hid our melee fighters and had a shootout. Managed to take his Crossbows out without casulties, even if it took a lot of crossbow bolts (thank god ammunition is unlimited in this game). When it finaly came to melee he was severly outnumbered and I grabbed an easy victory only loosing two hounds and wiping out his entire warband.

Also made some more changes to the warband and updated it to 0.9.2. The main idea behind this is to make armed vampires more of a rarity in a Lahmian warband.

Changes in 0.9.2:

Lahmian Swordswoman: Cost increased from 110 to 140
Dark Acolythe: Cost decreased from 85 to 75, may no longer buy equipment
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PostSubject: Re: Lahmian Sisterhood Warband   Today at 23:03

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