Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)

There is a diffrence between house rules and back of the book stuff. As I said In my original post it is 100% ok for one off games, the only house rules involved would be the continuation of these warbands in the form of a campaign.

House rules: something that a single person or group use in regards to rulings or other

Back of the book: official stuff, not included in the core rules/list. most of the time not as balanced as the core list/rules

Hi Guys - in a bid to kick start the interest in Mordheim in my local gaming group (probably a vain hope, but a hope nonetheless) I have decided to build several 'ready-made' war bands. So, in the midst of building some Mercenary bands, the next project will be orcs. So, what do you think of this list:

Orc Boss 105
Axe, Sword, Bow

Orc Shaman 50
Bow

Orc Big 'Un 55
Axe, Bow, Dagger

Orc Big 'Un 65
Axe, Shield, Bow

2 Orcs 110
Crossbow, Axe

2 Orcs 80
Great weapon

2 Goblins 40
Shortbow

Total: 500

I am relying on the 2 orcs with crossbows and the 2 orcs with great weapons to rack up enough experience fast enough and hopefully roll a Lad's Got Talent to help out in the exploration.
As far as tactics go it is quite a shooty warband, and I am a little concerned about this (I could drop a few of the bows and get some more gobos I suppose but I'm not too sure I want to) but if I have enough fun making these guys I'll probably end up playing them so that's alright.
I think they have enough versatility with both shooting and up close combat, so should be able to handle themselves in a lot of situations. I would like to get some more meat shields…erm…I mean goblins…in there but will probably wait until after a couple of games.
Will post some fluff soon.

loose the double handed weapons ...unless playing with some houserules boosting armour (and thus also high strength weapons) and penalizing dual hand weapons ...then the latter option of dual handweapons is MUCH BETTER ....

again, since armour is rarely seen let alone at start ...I would drop the axes and go with clubs instaed ....(they are also cheaper)

other things to consider:
- a troll?
- goblins with shortbows ...more is better *g*
- crossbows are by far superior to bows on a BS 3 guy.
- a good orc & goblin tactic is to "win by numbers" ie. gobbos are cheap ...and only count half towards routing ...ie. 5 orcs + 8 goblins ...can loose all 8 goblins before needing to take rout tests...

Thanks for the tips Boehm, some food for thought. I did think about giving the GW orcs 2 hand weapons, but there is just something so quintessentially orcy about hitting something with a great big stick/axe/sword that makes me hesitant to do so.
While clubs are cheaper and probably more effective than axes I will probably also stick with them - not to mention they are a lot easier to represent and a lot more 'orcy' - although a spiked mace could work....hmmm...will have to ponder this.
Should I drop an orc or 2 and make room for a lot more gobbos or just get them as the funds arise?
And as soon as possible the bows will be replaced with crossbows - I just ran out of gc's first.
Anyway, thanks for the tips, anyone else?

2HW can be great for heroes ...who have more than one attack ...and strongman skill ...otherwise the loss of +1A from additional handweapon / strike last ...just hurts too much. - in other cases I would be wary of utilizing them ...unless u REALLY need to have a big canopener

Hmm, good points. I'll redo a list when I get to work tomorrow (heh, so much for working hard)

Unlike my friend Boehm, I would rather recommend bows for orcs, rather than Crossbows.

For the simple reason, that I want to keep my orcs moving. A crossbow orc has to stand still in order to shoot. And let's be honest, they usually don't hit anyway. So then you have 1) wasted a shot 2) wasted your move because you had to stand still in order to take that shot.

With a bow you can at least walk 4" (which may allow for some important line of sight adjusting and/or gets you closer to the enemy) and still take a shot (at -1).

I personally use bows on orcs only as a means of pressure, to discourage shooty warbands to stand anywhere they want (even in the open) and let loose at my boys.
That way I can at least force the symbolic threat of an (unlikely) ranged attack kill on them.

Admin Tom wrote:

Unlike my friend Boehm, I would rather recommend bows for orcs, rather than Crossbows..

A bow has a range of 24'' - thats a short range of just 12'' ...

With a bow you can at least walk 4" (which may allow for some important line of sight adjusting and/or gets you closer to the enemy) and still take a shot (at -1).

Ever wonder why u miss ?

A bow has a range of 24'' - thats a short range of just 12'' ...which means a lot of times you will be shooting at long range for a "-1" ...moving (the advange the bow has vs. the crossbow other than price)...thats another "-1" ...quite often the enemy will be in cover for yet another "-1" .... - In my experience of Mordheim u will often find atleast 2 of the above three situations fulfilled ...thus a BS3 guy will only hit on a "6"...whereas a crossbow, if by no other means that forcing u to sit tight or with its extra 3'' shortrange ...would often hit on a "5" ...not even mentioning the S4 vs. S3 ...

(I realize ofcause that part of my argument makes it sound like its an advantage ...to be forced to "move or fire" ...ofcause its not ...its just that with BS3 guys its not so attractive an option to move AND fire ...anyway

IMO crossbows & longbows are about equal ....with bows being the poorer (cheaper) choice ...(not even mentioning slings here ...they are just way too good, their only drawback being that they dont work with "quickshoot"-skill, which is besides the matter when talking about equipment for henchmen)

Anyway, from my rambling ...you can probably tell ...Im about all geared up for some Mordheim ...where Im sure my crossbow guys will have their asses handed to them by some cheeky BS3 bowmen ...

Exarch Thomo wrote:

Orc Big 'Un 65
Axe, Shield, Bow

This should be 60

Exarch Thomo wrote:

I am relying on the 2 orcs with crossbows and the 2 orcs with great weapons to rack up enough experience....

Remember Henchemen ONLY get xp by surviving a game (no xp for killing)

Exarch Thomo wrote:

I could drop a few of the bows and get some more gobos

If you're going to get anything, you need a couple squigs. You already have the gobos. WS4, S4 attack for 15gc is freaking awesome (and they only count as 1/2 a person) I started my last orc warband with 5 Squigs, and just devoured the competition for the first couple games

Admin Tom wrote:

I would rather recommend bows for orcs, rather than Crossbows.

I agree... There are good points mentioned above... but I'll try to summarize:

Crossbow :
costs 15 gc more
6 extra inches (3 extra short-ranged inches)
+1 S
You can't move and fire.

Summary: Crossbows are Not worth it in my book.


I put some orc warbands together in this thread

ok ok u guys convinced ...me its better TO START with bows....xbows probably are not worth the extra 15gc ...when that can buy u a squig ....but I do still think that the crossbow is a better weapon than the bow (well it SHOULD be since it costs 15gc more )

Boehm wrote:

ok ok u guys convinced ...me

Muhahaha

But seriously: It really is up to personal preference... I don't remember the quote but:

Quote :

You can either have a lot of guys with little equipment, or a few guys with the best equipment; it's a good idea to try to strike a balance between them

Personally, I'm a Skaven guy at heart: Numbers are where it's at in my book.... more mouths to feed, but you just overwhelm the opponent... 5 orcs, 5 Gobos and 5 squigs will SMASH 4 decked-out humans any day of the week. (at least in my book) I don't think I will ever buy a crossbow.... when I could buy an Orc Boy for the same price. That's just how I play my warbands...

l8r
ash

In general I agree ...numbers win u games ...but there is also something to be said about keeping your rating low ...its soo annoying to hand out extra xp to the opponent when u could have won with less number of models

Anyway, I just found your blog Ashton ...nice ...I like your comments on O&G warbands ...personally I will always favor some combined arms approach ...any warband should be able to do BOTH CC and Shoot ...atleast to some extend ...

Boehm wrote:

In general I agree ...numbers win u games ...but there is also something to be said about keeping your rating low

Very true. Not to mention the more the models the less income you get for turning in wyrdstone. I think the creators of Mordheim did a good job of balancing out those numbers-based warbands.

Boehm wrote:

Anyway, I just found your blog Ashton ...nice

Thanks! I hope you found it useful

Orc Boss 105
Axe, Sword, Bow

Orc Shaman 53
Bow, Club

Orc Big 'Un 55
Axe, Bow, Dagger

Orc Big 'Un 60
Axe, Shield, Bow

2 Orcs 86
Axe, Bow, Club

2 Orcs 70
2 Axes

2 Goblins 40
Shortbow

2 Cave Squigs 30

Total: 499

12 Models

That's the second list I have come up with. I'm not sure I'm happy with it so I will probably tweak a bit more and post another list soon. My main concern with it is the number of models - 12 models and only 4 heroes means that it may be somewhat difficult to get a good amount of income. What have you guys found? Is this an issue with the orcs?
Also, because Squigs don't charge per se does that mean that they can't be intercepted? Because if that is the case they could be extremely useful for tying up the 'back line' models - archers, spell casters, young bloods etc making them a really excellent buy for 15gc!

Exarch Thomo wrote:

What have you guys found? Is this an issue with the orcs?

Probably the greatest drawback for orcs is only starting with 4 heroes. It sux. If you were going to be a super power player, I would separate those four Orc Boys into their own henchmen groups to increase chance of LGT.

My last (only) orc warband was 15 models and only 1 orc boy... after ~9 games, I've got 5 heroes, and I'm still doing great on the income.

It hasn't been too bad of a deal for me, and with all those Orc Boys, you will get up to 6 heroes in no time *knocks on wood*

Exarch Thomo wrote:

Also, because Squigs don't charge per se does that mean that they can't be intercepted?

I may be wrong, but this is how I play: Squigs stop at the first model they come in contact with, and since it counts as a charge (when they come in contact with an enemy unit) they can be intercepted.
I'm pretty sure I read the rules correctly on that. Anyone else what to take a shot at that one?

Ashton wrote:

I may be wrong, but this is how I play: Squigs stop at the first model they come in contact with, and since it counts as a charge (when they come in contact with an enemy unit) they can be intercepted.
I'm pretty sure I read the rules correctly on that. Anyone else what to take a shot at that one?

I see. The way I read it was that the 2D6 is there normal movement regardless, and if they come into contact with an enemy model then they count as charging for the next combat round (initiative etc). Because they don’t actually declare a charge this movement isn't a charge move. And because there is no charge being declared and no charge move made, then there is no opportunity to intercept the vicious little bundle of skin and teeth.
But that being said I haven't played in a while so my rules interpretations may be off.

I read over the rules for squigs and they really aren't specific on that point... really leaving it up to house rules:

Quote :

SPECIAL RULES
Movement: Cave Squigs do not have a set Movement
characteristic but move with an ungainly bouncing stride. To
represent this, when moving Squigs, roll 2D6 for the distance
they move. Squigs never run and never declare charges.
Instead, they are allowed to contact enemy models with their
normal 2D6" movement. If this happens, they count as
charging for the following round of close combat, just as if
they had declared a charge.

"allowed to contact enemy models with their normal 2D6" movement..."

When I first started playing, my friend played that squigs movement was more like one Large Jump, so they would instantly go up and down terrain without a problem (like flying in Heroscape lol) I don't use that any more

Another quick question to ponder on (although it's probably both simple and readily apparent) is this: Must there be one goblin within 6 inches for each squig, or is it up to 5 squigs being minded by the one gobo?
Thanks to everyone for your help and patience, it's greatly appreciated,
And thanks Ash for the help - your blog is great too. I've been following it for a little bit and have found it very helpful; Kudos to you.

Exarch Thomo wrote:

Must there be one goblin within 6 inches for each squig, or is it up to 5 squigs being minded by the one gobo?

The rules say:

Quote :

Each Cave Squig must always remain within 6" of a Goblin Warrior, who keeps the creature in line.

It doesn't say anything about one gobo per squig. It is just the presence of the Gobo that keeps the squig in line.

Just remember if you only have one gobo for 5 squigs... Animosity can kick in keeping the gobo from moving, and then if a squig gets 12" he's just about done for.

Exarch Thomo wrote:

And thanks Ash for the help - your blog is great too. I've been following it for a little bit and have found it very helpful; Kudos to you.

You're very welcome. I'm glad I could help. I take the *American Shift* and then when I go to bed, you got Tom, Cianty and all those informative Europeans to answer questions

I've been slow to the posting this last week as I'm slightly backlogged at work =(. I'll post again soon *crosses fingers*

l8r,

i usually play shadow warriors so from them to dwarfs is a big jump, however i wanted oppinions on this list i am intending to use.


Dwarf noble
dwarf axe, shield, pistol,
light armor

Dwarf engineer
Gromril hammer, shield
light armor

Troll slayer
2x dwarf axes

Beardling x2
axes shields



Thunderers x2
xbow s

501

idk if your gaming group accepts it, but 501 isn't 500, and get your engineer a Missle weapon is my advice

Hi Barden!

Matt is right. Unless it is a houserule of your group, 501gc is not allowed. 500 is the strict maximum and not a penny more.
Sorry to disappoint.

I think you should drop the armours and use helmets instead. For a starter warband of dwarfs it is a very useful, cheap piece of armour that makes them even harder to kill.
I would also equip the engineer (and if possible the noble) with a crossbow. Dwarfs need all the shooting they can get, because of their horribly low speed.
It will also exploit the increased range better the more xbows you have (trust me, 6" can make all the difference when it comes to sniper duels).

I would also give the beardlings a second weapon instead of the shields. With T4 and Hard to Kill they are tough enough for a start, and should rather focus on increasing their hit chances: i.e. with a second weapon. Remember that you "only" get a modifiable 6+ save out of the shields (5+ in CC if you play with the popular houserule explained in this section of the forum)

Hope that helps!
Let us know

indeed it does help, 501 is over the top yes, but this is only first run through ^_^

problem is whenever i play saves are nessesary, seeing as if i am knocked down or stunned CC = even worse, a save may stop that from happeneing.

i agree that a bit more missile is a good idea, as it will aid against shooty forces, of which there are a couple in our group, as a whole i will try to start the band against my friends vamp force as all those zombies will help exp =P

I'm by no means an expert, but I'd like to throw my 2 cents in anyway. I fiddled around with a Dwarf Treasure hunter list a while back and found their equipment very tempting. Unfortunately, nice equipment comes at a cost, a lack of warband members. My first list was similar to yours. It only had about 8 members, which meant that I'd rout after losing 2 models (ouch). My conclusion was that Dwarfs are a slow start warband. That is one needs to maximize their numbers (10-12 members) in the early games and buy impressive equipment later. The Dwarves natural toughness will ensure that they stick around for the first few games and their numbers will help to acquire gold crowns.

Long overdue reply here, after 3 gaming nights and 14 games (7 multi, 7 1v1) and a record off 5 wins, 7 loses ans 1 shared win.

Team is looking good, very fun and balanced. I only got one problem with it, the condemned`s skill options is to small. my own got 30 XP, with 4 skills and one stat opgrade (rolling a 1 on toughness) and im running out of options. The skills he got so far is: Resilient, mutation(tencacle), mighty blow and pit fighter. I dont know what to give him next. Hehe allmost forgot, he got Frenzy aswell ;D
From the special list is 5 skills, 2 is leader only, 1 is weapon based. And from strength we got cause fear(allready do) strongman (again weapon based) and the +1 ws on charge (only one left worth taking). Personaly I think he needs one mors skill list, combat or speed.

I really love the ws 4, I 4 henchmen, giving a small, but good advantage over most henchmen. Still havend tryed the spawn, so can say nothing about that.

The team have had some problem, shaman and champion have both died and the other champ had a -1 toughness, fired him (luckylig keeping him Ithlimar armor and other equipment) and my LGT got a -1 toughness same game.

Speacking of that game it was crazy, everbody went ooa but my chieftain, he got mark of onogal, giving him T5, he got gromril armor+shield(2+ save) and 3 wounds and 2 attack. I need to give him a skill after last game, i dont think he needs resilient or side astep, but am thinking about black blood to really punish when you hurt him.

think that is everthing from me now, again this is a very great warband

-Skavenslayer

Edit: Cool new marauders picture