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 Optional rules critical hit "Wild Sweep"

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Veskit



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PostSubject: Optional rules critical hit "Wild Sweep"    Tue 13 Nov 2012 - 20:58

"Your opponent’s weapon is knocked from his hand"
The Q. is:
1. What happens with anarmed model and with animal (dog, wolf, etc)?
2. Model with "Eshin fighting claws" ("sharp metal blades attached to the paws of a Skaven warrior", so how "knocked from his hand"?)
3. With ghouls (they "carry a few bones which they use as primitive weapons")?
4. What type of critical hit causes ghouls: "bludgeoning weapons" or "unarmed combat"?
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Optional rules critical hit "Wild Sweep"    Tue 13 Nov 2012 - 21:08

Welcome to the forum!

1-2.If you have no weapon or the weapon is attached nothing special happens aside from rolling for the damage of the wound.

3. Ghouls fight without weapons but suffer no penalty. They may not have equipment so the bones, clubs, etc sculpted on the models are ignored.
4. Ghouls use the unarmed crit table.
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PostSubject: Re: Optional rules critical hit "Wild Sweep"    Tue 13 Nov 2012 - 23:00

The only reason I can see to treat fighting claws differently is because they are a pair. Personally, I'd have the user have one knocked from his hand, so that he loses the extra attack and the re-roll on his parry. Think of it as a strap or buckle breaking if you need to justify it to yourself.
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PostSubject: Re: Optional rules critical hit "Wild Sweep"    Wed 14 Nov 2012 - 7:41

2,3 Don't mix backgrond text with rules. It makes things complicated. Smile


Last edited by catachanfrog on Wed 14 Nov 2012 - 12:41; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Optional rules critical hit "Wild Sweep"    Wed 14 Nov 2012 - 10:46

Welcome to the forums.

I agree with Von Kurst on all but #2.
CS is right. The attached is fluff (as Catachangfrog said) so one claw is lost for the battle.
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Veskit



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PostSubject: Re: Optional rules critical hit "Wild Sweep"    Wed 14 Nov 2012 - 19:19

Thx all.
Next questions:
1. What about "Cumbersome. A model armed with Fighting Claws
may not use any other weapons in the entire battle"? If loose one claw, may use sword in second paw?
2. With "art of silent death": This skill may be used in conjunction with the Eshin Fighting Claws (+2 Attacks instead of +1). So even after loose one claw still have +2A?
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PostSubject: Re: Optional rules critical hit "Wild Sweep"    Thu 15 Nov 2012 - 9:16

1: per the rules RAW (Rules as Writen). No
-Though you could argue that "Wild Sweep" will over ride this rule.
-To me I would apply logic to the over ride case and say "yes" but make sure your group is all clear on this before the start of the campaign.

2: My take on RAW is Yes
-I will say though that this case it was not the intent and they would still only get the +1 Attack for there off hand as it is now unarmed. I think the intent was that there is a claw in that hand as you would never have that hand be empty normally.
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PostSubject: Re: Optional rules critical hit "Wild Sweep"    Thu 15 Nov 2012 - 10:00

You have to buy another claw (half price) in order to use the parry and +1 attack bonus. You use them both to parry and get the extra attack, letting you wield another weapon is not ok to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Optional rules critical hit "Wild Sweep"    Thu 15 Nov 2012 - 21:57

As i see we have two ways:
RAW - wild sweep working, no way to use any weapon in second paw, but with "art of death" still have +2A
Logic - because claw is "attached" nothing special happens. (model can not remove claws at will, so it can't be accidentally) i call your attention to "He must fight with whatever back-up weapon he has in his equipment for the rest of this combat" Claw is not damaged or something else...
Finally, with "art of death" in both cases nothing special happens aside from rolling for the damage
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PostSubject: Re: Optional rules critical hit "Wild Sweep"    Fri 16 Nov 2012 - 8:49

actually the rules don't say how they are attached so it could be straps and they could break.
The rules do not say once equiped the model may never un equipe them (ie trade them to another model) in the post game. So logic says that you could become un equiped from your claw in the one hand.
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PostSubject: Re: Optional rules critical hit "Wild Sweep"    Fri 16 Nov 2012 - 12:01

The claws are actually gloves with spikes.
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PostSubject: Re: Optional rules critical hit "Wild Sweep"    Sat 17 Nov 2012 - 11:32

LuisMars wrote:
The claws are actually gloves with spikes.

Nope. There is no exact way how the claws are attached. GW has released at least five different models with fighting claws and all the claws look different.

I don't think that really is the issue anyway.

Either you allow the claw to be knocked down and the rat loses the extra attack bonus, may still parry once. Or you follow the fluff (questionable when it comes to competetive players) and say the claw cannot be knocked down because it is attached. But why wouldn't every weapon be attached in some fashion then?
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PostSubject: Re: Optional rules critical hit "Wild Sweep"    Sun 18 Nov 2012 - 4:30

Quote :
Or you follow the fluff (questionable when it comes to competetive players) and say the claw cannot be knocked down because it is attached
But if it's attached to a hand, I would say that when weapon is hit hand is also hit - by a hammer (or simillar) swinged at full force. I can't imagine other effect than fractured bones and severe dislocation. So how about instant "hand injury" or "arm wound"? Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Optional rules critical hit "Wild Sweep"    Sun 18 Nov 2012 - 6:27

If your group is okay with it, why not?

I would never agree to it however.
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PostSubject: Re: Optional rules critical hit "Wild Sweep"    Sun 18 Nov 2012 - 9:48

Quote :
If your group is okay with it, why not?

I would never agree to it however.
It was just a solution for people who like playing (and trying to take adventage of) by fluff.
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