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Goglutin
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PostSubject: War machines rules   Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 16:12

War machines

Introducing war machines to a skirmish game like Mordheim is not an easy task. First, war machines should be rare and VERY expensive. Their mobility do not make them great choice for that kind of battles. Still, the fun to have a canon on the battlefield is tremendous even if it’s underpowered for its cost (relative to the inefficiency to target a single model).

So, I kept in mind the 12 following ‘’laws’’ when I made conception:

1- They MUST be expensive and underpowered for their efficiency as they are not designed for skirmish battle but for big battlefields.
2- Movement is limited and they have a limited fire arc.
3- 2 crews or more should be on the machine for it to shoot.
4- 3 crews or more should be on the machine to move its speed.
5- 4 crews or more should be on the machine to make it run.
6- They cannot shoot the turn they move.
7- Losing a battle by routing involuntary should make you lose the machine to the hand of the enemy unless the machine is 8’’ near a table edge.
8- They should be POWERFUL when they directly HIT and have potent damage in their radius.
9- Scatter is important for many of them.
10- They should have limited firing capacity and sometimes different types of ammunitions.
11- They should have a very low upkeep (compensated by the cost of repairs).
12- They should be FUN!

So all war machine abides by those rules unless noted otherwise.

1- All war machines have their own speed and need at least 2 crewmen in base contact to be operated, 3 to be moved up to its speed and 4 to make it run. A war machine cannot shoot the turn it moves and cannot move if it’s engaged in close combat. Engaging in hand-to-hand a crewman do not stop the war machine movement or shooting if there is enough crewmen ‘’free’’ to move or operate it. Crewmen moves with the war machine as a whole and they can be distributed as you wish around the machine as long as they are in base contact. Crewmen engaged in hand-to-hand will NOT move or operate the machine. A war machine that can move can pivot freely during their movement phase.

2- War machines cannot be placed inside buildings at the start of the game; however they can be placed on hills, mountains, large rocks, etc… Should they fall by any means, they take falling damage as normal and they are stuck in the falling spot for the rest of the game and cannot be moved or operated.

3- Animals and stupid creature cannot help to operate a war machine. However, they can help to move it as normal. Large creature (such as horses and ogres) counts as 2 crewmen for the purpose of moving the machine.

4- All war machines can shoot in a 90 degree Arc in front of them.

5- All war machines use their own BS.

6- If a hero operates a machine he gets experience for all models he puts OOA with the machine. Only the hero with the most Ld will get the experience if there are more than one.

7- For each wound lost, a war machine needs repairs. Each wound recovered cost 20 GC. A war machine that is put OOA cannot be repaired at all. A war machine needs to be fully repaired before it is brought back to combat.

8- War machines and crewmen must be attacked individually. Crewmen in combat cannot operate the war machine. A war machine engaged in hand-to-hand cannot be operated or moved until no enemy is in base contact.

9- War machines are immune to critical hits (but not their crewmen!).

10- All war machines require time for loading. It takes one full turn or more to reload the machine and it must be operated by at least two crewmen.

11- War machines are totally immune to psychology and psychological spell effects (use you own judgment).

12- War machines cannot climb, jump or enter difficult terrain. A war machine that is pushed by any means into difficult terrain is stuck and cannot move or shoot for the rest of the game.

13- Unless noted otherwise, war machines abide by the rules for range and cover, but they are not affected by shooting priority.

14- Some war machines have options. Options must be purchased with the machine and cannot be bought thereafter.

15- Losing a battle by routing involuntary makes you lose the machine to the hand of the enemy unless the machine is 8’’ near a table edge. The warband getting the machine can ransom it for half its full price minus the repairs, use it for itself if it’s under the war machine warbands that may hire it or simply destroy it.

16- A war machine is automatically hit in close combat. Knocked down and stunned status have no effect on it and it is put OOA only on 6.

17- War machines do not get experience.

Scatter

Many war machines have scatters. This means they have not hit their expected point of impact or that they simply bounce in the area. When scatter occurs, move the point of impact in direct line. If it encounters a building, a big rock or something that would stop the missile to reach this spot, consider the blast at that point of impact.
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PostSubject: Re: War machines rules   Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 16:13

New Academic skills for war machines

Ballistic training: The hero knows how to mathematically increase the chances for hitting the right spot and thus increase the war machine BS by 1 as long as he is in base contact with it. This skill can be taken twice per the same character. Only one character at a time can use this skill on the same war machine.

Crew master: The hero knows how to help to reload the war machine and thus reduce the loading time by one full turn. In the case the machine needs only one turn to reload; you can shoot every turn with it.

Tactical efficiency: The hero is so efficient with war machines that you can shoot even if you moved the machine this turn (but not if it runs).


New Strength skills for war machines

Beast of burden: (Require the strongman skill) The hero is so strong that he counts for two crewmen for purpose of counting the number of crewmen operating a war machine. He still cannot operate the machine alone however.
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PostSubject: Re: War machines rules   Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 16:16

War machine – Canon

Canons are designed to shoot either big balls of iron or explosive filled reinforced ceramic shells. They are a force to reckon with on a battlefield as they can cause tremendous damages to a unit. Dwarves and humans canons are the best available tough chaos dwarves also use similar technology.

Hire fee: 150 Gc to hire

May be hired: Mercenaries, Dwarves.

Rating: A Canon increases the warband rating by 25.


M: 3 BS: 3 T: 6 W: 5

Ammunitions: Iron ball / Explosive shell
Reload: 1 turn
Range: 40’’

Rules:

Large : The canon is large and thus all missile weapons have +1 to hit and he can always be the target.

Hard metal: The canon have a 4+ armour save.

Misfires(optional): The canon is affected by the misfire rules. However, BOOM! Results will only cause the loss of one wound. If the last wound is lost in this manner the canon is destroyed (automatically OOA).

Iron ball: When shooting iron ball, the commander tries to cause minimal collateral damages and thus aim for a single point of impact. Roll to hit as normal with modifiers for range and cover.

In case of success, the canon will cause 2D3 Strength 5 hits to the target and the ball will bounce in a random direction (use a scatter dice) by D3 inches. Every warrior under the scatter line will be hit by a S4 hit unless he passes an Initiative test.

In case of a miss, the target is safe. However, the ball wills bounce in a random direction (use a scatter dice) by 1D6 + 2 inches. Any warrior under the scatter line will be hit by a S4 hit unless he passes an Initiative test.

Explosive shell: When shooting explosive shells, the commander tries to cause damages into an area rather than trying to hit a specific target. Roll to hit as normal with range and cover modifier.

In case of success, the commander managed to hit the zone he expected. Use a 5’’ diameter circle template to define the zone (centered on the point of impact. Everything under the template takes a S4 hit. Warriors that are only partially covered have an Initiative test to avoid the hit.

In case of a miss, simple roll a scatter dice and move the point of impact by 2D6 inches in that direction.



Options: Imperial quality (40 Gc): Forged by the master engineers of Nuln, the canon is very reliable and thus will ignore any misfires on a roll of 4+.

Dwarven canon (50 Gc): Dwarven canons have a shorter ‘’barrel’’ and thus shoot only at 30’’ range. However, they ignore cover penalty because they are very accurate.

Long canon (35 Gc): The longer ‘’barrel’’ gives extra range for the canon. Increase range by 8’’.
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PostSubject: Re: War machines rules   Sun 28 Oct 2012 - 11:46

I love the idea of warmachines in Mordheim.

We already integrated them in some scenarios as usable scenery. We used boltthrowers , stone throwers and canons and we used the rules from the Warhammer rules.It was really fun.

They can have a real impact but normally the don't.

I do not know if i like the option to really buy them for your warband, but i will follow your thread with interest.

Keep on.
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PostSubject: Re: War machines rules   Mon 29 Oct 2012 - 20:23

Our group has also used warmachines in Mordheim games for quite awhile. We also tend to limit them to specific scenarios since the average cannon, rock lobber or bolt thrower is not suitable to every scenario. (Indeed they are quite unsuitable to many.)

We use the rules from Warhammer for shooting cannon and rock lobbers. Using BS to hit with a cannon seems odd to me. Plus everything I have read about the development of cannon mentions the bounce of the shot, so I feel like the mechanic of the rule is 'right'.

I like your laws for warmachines, but I would modify them slightly:

--Warmachines may NEVER run.

--Warmachines may never move and fire unless mounted on a boat or ship.
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PostSubject: Re: War machines rules   Tue 30 Oct 2012 - 4:01

Thx alot for your comments....

I know that it may seem odd that war machine may ''run'' .. but i tried to make them more ''adapted'' to a skirmish game... also, using 4 models for this is really hampering ... Stilll I agree about your logic.

About move & shoot.. youre right too... thats why I added a skill for this. Again, logic is not taken into account...

Youre quite right here. But I tried to make them fun an ''useful''.

thx again for your comments !!
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PostSubject: Re: War machines rules   Tue 30 Oct 2012 - 9:16

You could make horse drawn carts for them to allow higher movement instead of allowing them to run. This would fit better and allow high movement... it would also limit the higher movement ones to ground level unless unloaded and hauled up there.
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PostSubject: Re: War machines rules   Tue 30 Oct 2012 - 10:13

What I tought is to reduce their movement to 1 or 2 and keep the ''run'' rule so they can get faster.

Still need to be paytested ...
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PostSubject: Re: War machines rules   Tue 30 Oct 2012 - 10:26

I can see that working.

Would you allow them to climb?

I would still allow/make some rule for putting them on a horse drawn cart for mobility and adds to the conversion options too. Also just think of seeing the face of your opponant when his cannon on cart takes off...
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PostSubject: Re: War machines rules   Tue 30 Oct 2012 - 12:36

If you read I already tought about that ... horses and large creatures count as 2 warrior for momving the war machine Wink

I also wrote that they CANNOT CLIMB. That is for sure !

12- War machines cannot climb, jump or enter difficult terrain. A war machine that is pushed by any means into difficult terrain is stuck and cannot move or shoot for the rest of the game.


I try to keep things as simple as possible witout adding rules over rules ... This is not always very ''logic'' but after all, Mordheim is game with so many ''grey areas'' that most people will figure out to adapt it to their own style.

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