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 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model

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tuxedokman
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PostSubject: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Sat 25 Aug 2012 - 23:01

so a mutant in a possessed warband has 4 arms, can he have a 2 handed weapon and 2 other weapons?

the rules say "may not use a shield or buckler or additional weapon in close combat"

when he charges would he get the 2 attacks from the other weapons, and then strike last with the 2 handed weapon? or strike last with all 3 attacks? has this been addressed?

also where is it covered in the rule book about casting spells while engaged in close combat? when a spell caster casts while in close combat do the other models in base combat get "an attack of opportunity"?
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Sun 26 Aug 2012 - 0:46

I belive the rules state that models can only carry 2 combat weapons, but theoritically he could use a 2 handed a weapon andother weapon and a dagger.

We played it as only striking last with the 2 handed weapon.
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tuxedokman
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Sun 26 Aug 2012 - 1:38

Yes i do remeber the 2 weapon rule...but if its two weapon max, whats thre point of having extra arm mutations? I heard that 4 armed mutants where terrors..but it brings up a number of rule issues.

Also do know about the casting while in base to base combat question?
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Sun 26 Aug 2012 - 1:41

Nope I always played as dwarves...it never came up lol.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Sun 26 Aug 2012 - 3:25

Quote :
so a mutant in a possessed warband has 4 arms, can he have a 2 handed weapon and 2 other weapons?

As maxxev states this is possible, but you may not have more than 2 close combat weapons aside from the free dagger.

Quote :
when he charges would he get the 2 attacks from the other weapons, and then strike last with the 2 handed weapon? or strike last with all 3 attacks? has this been addressed?

He would get 2 attacks with the other weapons and then strike last with the 2 hander.

Quote :
I heard that 4 armed mutants were terrors..but it brings up a number of rule issues.

It does. It is possible that people that play with 4 armed mutants are playing by House Rules. I've played constantly for 10 yrs and never encountered a 4 armed mutant. It just depends on who you play with.

Quote :
also where is it covered in the rule book about casting spells while engaged in close combat?

Magic is covered in the magic section. These rules are very brief and pretty much mean what they say. Additional rules may be included in the descriptions of each spell. If a spell CANNOT be cast in hand to hand combat it will say so in the spell description.

Quote :
when a spell caster casts while in close combat do the other models in base combat get "an attack of opportunity"?

No they do not.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Sun 26 Aug 2012 - 5:27

Without house-rules, there is one option that could get kind of what you want - weapon pairs. In the base rules I think the only suitable ones would be Weeping Blades. Fighting Claws are also a pair weapon, but forbid the use of all other weapons. Weeping Blades count as one option, but give you two weapons - one for two hands. You could legally wield a pair of Weeping Blades, a double-handed weapon, and a dagger too if you wanted a fifth arm. Arm six could carry a shield and arm seven could carry a buckler.

There are probably other weapon pairs in expansions, but I am far too sleepy to search for them.

As a house rule you could always make it that you can buy two of any weapons and call it a case like you can make a brace of pistols, e.g. a case of swords, case of axes, case of rolling pins, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Sun 26 Aug 2012 - 11:09

this question was all spawned off this thread

http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t6352-green-possessed-player-figuring-out-a-list?highlight=possessed

i was looking for possessed builds i havnt tryed before and i wonder if they knew about the 2 weapon max rule.....
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Sun 26 Aug 2012 - 12:11

When I start a Possessed Band, I usually start with a 4 armed mutant. I have read that a 4 armed mutant can’t use 2 two-handed weapons, mainly because the extra arms are not always at the torso. One could be on his head and the other from his butt or something. But I ask you, if I’m hiring members of my band can I not pick and choose who I hire? If I have two 4 armed applicants for the job and one has an arm on his head and one from his belly, and the other mutant has all 4 arms on his torso in the right areas; which do you think I’ll hire? In which case, he should be able to use 2, two handed weapons. If he gained an advancement from the Shadowlord, then you couldn’t pick where that arm will protrude from.

I like the idea of using weeping blades and fighting claws, but since the only to get those weapons, is to capture two skavens; and take theirs and/or trade the skaven for them.
Normally for my 4 armed mutant I use a combo of Sword, Axe, free dagger, and fist. Or, 1 two handed weapon, sword, free dagger. This way, he doesn’t go over the weapon allotment.

If a Skaven can use fighting claws and a dagger (with tail fighting), then why can’t a 3 or 4 armed mutant use the free dagger in the empty hand?
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Sun 26 Aug 2012 - 15:46

Unless there has been an errata or something Skaven can't use a fighting claws and a dagger when tailfighting because fighting claws forbids the use of *any* other weapons. However, a Skaven with an axe and sword could use a dagger in their tail just as your 3-armed mutant could use an axe and a sword and a free dagger. Your 4-armed mutant is out of luck for his last hand just as a 2-tailed skaven with tail-fighting would be.

Even if your arms were in the right places you would have difficulty using two two-handed weapons because they would get in the way of each other. Perhaps with a special skill you could re-learn or, more likely, develop from scratch, a fighting style where you hold a two-handed weapon with two left hands or two right hands, but I suspect that was more complexity than the original designers wanted. Possibly another reason for disallowing it would be for modelling purposes. If all added arms, no matter where they are, are equal then there is no game advantage from putting them wherever you want and noone feels obliged to add the arms in the optimum configuration.

Of course, there is nothing stopping your group making whatever house-rules you like, but personally I would go for either making a new skill that allows this or letting Weapons Training allow the use of two double-handed weapons. You could also add the 'case-of' rule to remove the reliance on getting Skaven weeping blades.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Mon 27 Aug 2012 - 1:14

Its my understanding that tailfighting and extra arm allows the use of a weapon in addition to the original two.
If your group rule otherwise, take shields and bucklers to fill the extra slots, or in case of the 4 armed mutant, revisit the shadow lord and get some great claws Smile
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Tue 28 Aug 2012 - 4:37

from the 2002 annual FAQ:

Quote :
Q: The rulebook states that you can arm a warrior "with up to two close combat weapons, up to two different missile weapons and any armor chosen from the appropriate list." How do pistols count?

A: Pistols are listed under Blackpowder weapons (which is a special kind of shooting weapon), in the price list they are listed under missile weapons. According to rules, pistol is a missile weapon, brace of pistols counts as two missile weapons (although some clubs play it that brace counts as one missile weapon only). It doesn’t take “slots” for your hand-to-hand weapons.

and:

Quote :
Q: When choosing the Third Arm mutation on my mutant, it says that, using this arm I can chose any one-arm weapon... does that include the Sisters of Sigmar Steel Whip? I know it is only available to the Sisters of Sigmar but does the mutation void this rule.

A: As long as the Mutant in question has Weapons Training, he can use a Steel Whip, Dwarf Axe, or other one handed close combat weapon in the arm. Of course, the only possibility to get this weapon is if an enemy hero is Captured by you at the end of a battle and you sell him into slavery (some warbands get other options too Smile In this case you get their equipment, to dispose of as you see fit, including giving it to Weapons Trainees to use.

Not that this clears anything up.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Wed 29 Aug 2012 - 4:21

brokenv wrote:
from the 2002 annual FAQ:

Quote :
Q: The rulebook states that you can arm a warrior "with up to two close combat weapons, up to two different missile weapons and any armor chosen from the appropriate list." How do pistols count?

A: Pistols are listed under Blackpowder weapons (which is a special kind of shooting weapon), in the price list they are listed under missile weapons. According to rules, pistol is a missile weapon, brace of pistols counts as two missile weapons (although some clubs play it that brace counts as one missile weapon only). It doesn’t take “slots” for your hand-to-hand weapons.

[...]

i know this rule:
LRB Warbands Page 2 wrote:

Each warrior you recruit can be armed with up to two
close combat weapons (in addition to his free
dagger), up to two different missile weapons and any
armour chosen from the appropriate list. For these
purposes, a brace of pistols counts as a single missile
weapon.
[...]
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Wed 29 Aug 2012 - 11:35

mmm well as for the brace of pistols thats interesting but there's no way a mutant can ever use pistols. but this thread has lots of great answers!
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Tue 11 Sep 2012 - 15:13

I had assumed and played as (possessed are new to me) the two weapon limit was in effect 1 per hand but I am wrong it seams (without house rules).
Though I don't see why you have to capture or trade with a Skaven to get the weeping blades or fighting claws? Would not weapons expert allow you to get them?
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Tue 11 Sep 2012 - 15:30

Weapons Expert will allow you to *use* them, but not purchase them because they all say "Availability: Rare x, Skaven only". Most equipment on a warband list will have this limitation.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Tue 11 Sep 2012 - 15:47

ah i understand what your saying there. I always thought that it was meant that it was "skaven only" in that they didn't need a skill to use it.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Wed 12 Sep 2012 - 2:56

What Lord 0 said Smile The familiar in the shadow warrior list is the only exeption i can think of to this Smile
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Wed 12 Sep 2012 - 15:58

There is also the double-barreled weapons in the Ostlander warband, but that is probably more due to careless editing that true intention.

Generally you can assume that if the equipment is available for everyone it will either be in a general 'new equipment' section or will specifically say so. If the equipment is only on a warband's list it is pretty safe to assume only they can buy it.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Thu 11 Oct 2012 - 22:00

LOOP HOLE need varification

ok so what we have so far

a mutant with 4 arms, can only have 2 close combat weapons and his dagger, and the 4th arm is "unarmed"

yes?

a brace of pistols are missile weapons, that can be used in close combat as clubs

COULD i buy a brace of pistols and give them to my mutant to use as clubs? i know that they cant use pistols and can never learn to use pistols (no shooting skills section), but can they use them as clubs even though they cant shoot them?

this would give a 4 armed mutant 4 weapons to use.

would this work?
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Fri 12 Oct 2012 - 5:46

I'm not getting healthy vibes here. If your group thinks the 4 armed mutant would be fun, make some house rules to make it work. If your group does not think it would be fun, abide dude.

Abusing house rules to circumvent 'real' rules (the pistol as a club rule is a house rule) is known as cheating in my group.

Besides Possessed warbands can not use pistols thus the mutant would need access to shooting skills to gain access to pistols. Mutants may not take shooting skills. Loophole closed.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Fri 12 Oct 2012 - 5:59

My group has never questioned that buying arms is equivalent to buying extra weapon capacity. 4 arms? 4 swords and swordsman skill, no problem. 2 doublehanders? No problem. We also play Rule of Cool, though, so take that for what it's worth.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Fri 12 Oct 2012 - 9:51

The pistols would still need the skill for them to even pick them up... now if you are using the Power of the stones or some other like rule set and your merc gets a 3rd arm then game on Wink
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PostSubject: Re: 2 handed weapon on 4 handed model   Thu 18 Oct 2012 - 9:28

in a situation like this, I think if someone was creative enough to model a 4 handed mutant with 2 2handed weapons... my group would allow it. Thats generally how we shut people up in my group that have ridiculous ideas on bending rules. "If you can model it, you can use it" Granted, I know no one in my group has the ambition to do such a thing, so its a cheater way of winning arguments. God help us the day that someone in my group actually does model something ridiculous like that

legally though, you could use a 2handed weapon in your 2 main arms, a sword in another arm, and a shield in the last. that would follow all the rules just fine.

"The mutant may use any single-handed weapon
in the extra arm, giving him +1 attack when fighting
in hand-to-hand combat. Alternatively, he may carry a
shield or a buckler in the extra arm
."
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