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 Ideas for shield and buckler skills

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Edyy
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PostSubject: Ideas for shield and buckler skills   Wed 25 Jul 2012 - 17:10

So here are a few ideas that I thought of what are people's verdicts? (I have marked possible additions with *()* )


Metal fist: This warrior has learnt how to knock their opponent off balance, with a well placed strike with their buckler, for just long enough to gain the upper hand.
If the warrior is equipped with a buckler then they gain an additional attack *(at +1 to hit?)* that always strikes first but a successful hit will not allow a roll to wound instead it will remove one of the opponents attacks for that round of combat (down to a minimum of 1). (Combat skill)

Riposte: This warrior is able deftly part their opponents blades leaving them vulnerable to a lightning fast counter attack.
After a successful parry *(only with buckler)* this warrior can make an additional attack against the model whose attack they parried *(at -1 to hit?)* *(even if they were KD, stunned or taken OoA?)*. (Speed skill)

Beat Back: This warrior is so skill with a shield that they can send enemies sprawling after a failed attack with one mighty shove of thier shield.
If this warrior is equipped with a shield then at the end of each combat phase they may push an enemy warrior that they are in combat with back 1 *(and stop them from charging/shooting? *(if they pass a S test?)* )* if they made a successful armour save against one of their attacks. (Strength skill)
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brokenv
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas for shield and buckler skills   Thu 26 Jul 2012 - 3:52

Edyy wrote:
Metal fist: This warrior has learnt how to knock their opponent off balance, with a well placed strike with their buckler, for just long enough to gain the upper hand.
If the warrior is equipped with a buckler then they gain an additional attack *(at +1 to hit?)* that always strikes first but a successful hit will not allow a roll to wound instead it will remove one of the opponents attacks for that round of combat (down to a minimum of 1). (Combat skill)

I love this. Between parry and -1 attack, this makes buckler a valid choice.

Edyy wrote:
Riposte: This warrior is able deftly part their opponents blades leaving them vulnerable to a lightning fast counter attack.
After a successful parry *(only with buckler)* this warrior can make an additional attack against the model whose attack they parried *(at -1 to hit?)* *(even if they were KD, stunned or taken OoA?)*. (Speed skill)

This one is a good idea, but I can see some mechanical errors with whether or not it interrupts the attack (only important for multiple attacks) or whether it adds to attacks after everything (just weird with either adding an attack or having 2 rounds of attacks).

For the same idea, I'd suggest either a disarm (although I hate disarm rules, even if they are a cool idea) or a rule that allows you parry any hit instead of the highest roll.

Edyy wrote:
Beat Back: This warrior is so skill with a shield that they can send enemies sprawling after a failed attack with one mighty shove of thier shield.
If this warrior is equipped with a shield then at the end of each combat phase they may push an enemy warrior that they are in combat with back 1 *(and stop them from charging/shooting? *(if they pass a S test?)* )* if they made a successful armour save against one of their attacks. (Strength skill)

Moving people in combat is always going to make some funny mechanical issues, but seeing as you seem to want to give shield wielders a strong(er) defensive measure I'd either give unmitigated armour saves or can interrupt a chargers 'strike first'.
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas for shield and buckler skills   Thu 26 Jul 2012 - 6:13

New equipment
Shield Spike
+5 gold.
Replaces S penalty when striking with a shield with +1 to armour saves.

Buckler Spike
+5 gold.
Allows Bucklers to be used as an offhand weapon at S-1,I-1

Spikes may be equipped by any model capable of equipping the shield or buckler they were purchased with. If not purchased with the shield or buckler you must pay an additional 5 gold attachment fee. Spikes may be purchased made from exotic materials.

Strength Skills
Shield Slam
On the turn you charge you may make one additional attack at S=User. If you are using optional crit tables it counts as a bludgeoning weapon.

Shield Bash
You may use a shield as an off-hand weapon at -1S,-1I. If you are using optional crit tables it counts as a bludgeoning weapon.

Expert Block
Your shield gains +1 AS in melee. In addition, once per combat you may make an AS in place of any model within 1/4". If you fail this save then you suffer the wound in place of the intended target.

Mighty Block
Once per round you may use the sheer strength of your shield-arm to block an incoming attack. If you pass a S test you convert the first hit against you into a miss. In addition to this, AV granted to you via your shield is never negated via S penalties.*

Bullrush
On the turn you charge you may forgo all your attacks and make a single melee attack. If it hits your opponent is knocked down.

Combat Skills
Wall of Steel
You parry if you roll equal to your opponent.

Expert Parry
You may grant the 'Parry' special rule to any one weapon you are holding. If you are holding two weapons with Parry or a Buckler and a weapon with Parry then you may re-roll any failed parries. If you are armed with two weapons that already had parry or a buckler and a weapon that already had parry then you may make an additional parry.**

Riposte
If you successfully parry a hit you may make an immediate attack at -1 to hit.***

Obscured Attack
You hold the buckler in front of your weapon hand making it difficult to predict where the attack will be launched from. Fairly standard maneuver, but tricky to pull off.
If you are armed with a buckler then at the start of each round of combat you may make a WS test. If you pass then one enemy model in base-to-base contact with you must make an I test. If they fail then you may make 1 attack with your main weapon that Strikes First.

Feint
After each turn you fight in melee you may feint any one opponent in base-to-base contact with you. Both of you make a WS test. If you pass and your opponent fails then they will strike last in the next turn.

Buckler Bash
You may strike with a buckler as an off-hand weapon without the S penalty I penalty.

* Designer note: In my group we have a house-rule that one may parry if knocked down. If you are using such a rule then Mighty Block should be able to be used also.

** Designer note: This is one we are still working on. The thing is I want it to be useful if you have a weapon that can parry *and* if you don't *and* if you have a buckler *and* if you don't. There is only one combat skill that locks you to using a specific weapon and noone ever took it except for background reasons. We changed Expert Swordsman to 'use with any weapon that can parry' and now it sees a bit more use.

*** You *can* score a riposte off a riposte. We left this in because it is *awesome* when you go back and forth with a Riposte!-Parry!-Riposte!-Parry!-Riposte!-Parry! chain. It reminds me in particular of Princess Bride. I also like the idea of it being a speed skill, so perhaps I will change this.
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas for shield and buckler skills   Thu 26 Jul 2012 - 6:37

Edyy wrote:
Beat Back: This warrior is so skill with a shield that they can send enemies sprawling after a failed attack with one mighty shove of thier shield.
If this warrior is equipped with a shield then at the end of each combat phase they may push an enemy warrior that they are in combat with back 1 *(and stop them from charging/shooting? *(if they pass a S test?)* )* if they made a successful armour save against one of their attacks. (Strength skill)
This is awesome. I am totally stealing this. Possibly combining it with Bullrush or something though.

brokenv wrote:
Edyy wrote:
Riposte: This warrior is able deftly part their opponents blades leaving them vulnerable to a lightning fast counter attack.
After a successful parry *(only with buckler)* this warrior can make an additional attack against the model whose attack they parried *(at -1 to hit?)* *(even if they were KD, stunned or taken OoA?)*. (Speed skill)
This one is a good idea, but I can see some mechanical errors with whether or not it interrupts the attack (only important for multiple attacks) or whether it adds to attacks after everything (just weird with either adding an attack or having 2 rounds of attacks).
In the version we use, we made it an interrupt. Seems to work OK.
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas for shield and buckler skills   Thu 26 Jul 2012 - 15:16

I see some WArmachine/hordes inspirations Very Happy
Quote :
Beat Back: This warrior is so skill with a shield that they can send enemies sprawling after a failed attack with one mighty shove of thier shield.
If this warrior is equipped with a shield then at the end of each combat phase they may push an enemy warrior that they are in combat with back 1 *(and stop them from charging/shooting? *(if they pass a S test?)* )* if they made a successful armour save against one of their attacks. (Strength skill)
The first thing that came to my mind after reading this is a goblin with shield pushing let's say.... a minotaur/ogre. I think that
Quote :
....push an enemy warrior with base size equal or smaller....
and
Quote :
If this warrior is equipped with a shield and it's not knocked down or stunned
would be nice to add. Concept sounds fine but I think that a strenght test is a way too easy to get rid of powerful enemies for everyone for a shield cost. Besides - what if there's no room for that 1" push? What if enemy model collides with another one model from my warband? And what if two fighting models are equipped with shields?
Quote :
Riposte: This warrior is able deftly part their opponents blades leaving them vulnerable to a lightning fast counter attack.
After a successful parry *(only with buckler)* this warrior can make an additional attack against the model whose attack they parried *(at -1 to hit?)* *(even if they were KD, stunned or taken OoA?)*. (Speed skill)
How can you parry when you are autohit or dead?

Not trying to disincline you but lately I'm crazy about rules wording. Sir, yes sir!
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas for shield and buckler skills   Thu 26 Jul 2012 - 18:12

We already have a house rule saying you can parry while knocked down, but if you didn't have such a thing that could make a good skill.

Ground Fighting

You can parry even if knocked down. Your opponent must roll a dice for each attack, but all attacks will still hit automatically.
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas for shield and buckler skills   Thu 26 Jul 2012 - 19:16

I think for the "Beat Back" skill, the enemy model can only be pushed back if it has a lower Strength. I'm also toying with a similar "Riposte" skill as well, and it's pretty close to what you have written here. These are all good ideas, keep 'em coming!
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas for shield and buckler skills   Fri 27 Jul 2012 - 17:13

For beat-back, what about making it a single auto-hit ASL attack? Instead of taking a wound the target staggers back d3"? That way a man-sized creature would have to be lucky and skilled to make an ogre-sized creature stagger backwards.

Or combine it with Bullrush for something like: on the turn you charge you may exchange all attacks for one autohit attack. If it wounds then your opponent is knocked back d3" and must pass a S test or be knocked down. If they collide with a model then both take a hit of S equal to the distance rolled.

Alternatively, perhaps make it so that immediately after resolving a warrior's attacks roll a S-vs-S test (like S-vs-T for wounding, but replace target's T for S). Big guys get +2 to their base S. The attacker gets weapon and skill bonuses to S, the defender does not. If the attacker scores a 'wound' then the defender is knocked back 1" and must pass a T test or be Knocked Down.
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas for shield and buckler skills   Fri 27 Jul 2012 - 17:50

I find bullrush to be a bit overpowered on its own, giving another style of bullrush for everyone would be too much imo.
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas for shield and buckler skills   Sat 11 Aug 2012 - 3:21

Sorry about the lack of response I've been on holiday for the past couple of weeks.

Quote :
Quote :

Riposte: This warrior is able deftly part their opponents blades leaving them vulnerable to a lightning fast counter attack.
After a successful parry *(only with buckler)* this warrior can make an additional attack against the model whose attack they parried *(at -1 to hit?)* *(even if they were KD, stunned or taken OoA?)*. (Speed skill)

How can you parry when you are autohit or dead?
I guess I should have made this one a bit clearer. The way I had intended it to work was if you parry you get an additional attack after that barrage of attacks have all rolled for injury even if those injuries would otherwise leave you unable to attack.
(So possessed with A4 attacks a dwarf thane with riposte skill and dwarf axe. The possessed hits with all attacks but dwarf parries one. Dwarf gets taken OoA by wounds but gets his riposte attack straight after (so both could die Razz ). Way I imagine it is that in the barrage of attacks the parrying model manages to turn one away and land a hit of his own but the other attacks reach their target anyway.

As for Beat Back thank's Lord 0 they do say that stealing is the sincerest form of... wait that's not it is it. Razz
Anyway I thought that it should have some way to factor strength in which is why I queried having to take an S test but I think that lord 0's idea of SvS test with +2 for "large" creatures is better. I also liked Lord 0's idea of the T test or knocked down but I don't really like auto KD things because it can really hurt multi wound models so how does this sound?:

"both players roll a d6 and add their S and an additional plus 2 if they are a large creature. If the beater backer scores higher than the other model then the other model is pushed back 1" and must pass a T test or they can do nothing in their next turn ( though they may still defend themselves in combat at -1 to hit)."

Oh and I should have added in this bit as well:

"If the model is moved into into terrain or another model all models involved stop where they are (1" away if they are enemy models) and take a S3 hit (no crits)."
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PostSubject: Re: Ideas for shield and buckler skills   Today at 1:35

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