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Scoates
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PostSubject: Sword Breaker Question   Thu 7 Jun 2012 - 20:58

I am fighting a frenzied character with 4 attacks (all one weapon). The first attack I parry and destroy the weapon with a sword breaker. Does he still get all four attacks with the weapon before it is destroyed? It seems weird to make attacks with a destroyed weapon, but technically all attacks are rolled before I can parry.
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PostSubject: Re: Sword Breaker Question   Thu 7 Jun 2012 - 21:12

It's not really that wierd. A broken sword is still dangerous. As far as I know, the broken weapon can no longer be used AFTER the round of combat in which the weapon was broken.
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PostSubject: Re: Sword Breaker Question   Thu 7 Jun 2012 - 21:51

Quote :
I am fighting a frenzied character with 4 attacks (all one weapon). The first attack I parry and destroy the weapon with a sword breaker. Does he still get all four attacks with the weapon before it is destroyed? It seems weird to make attacks with a destroyed weapon, but technically all attacks are rolled before I can parry.

You may parry if you beat the highest of your enemy's rolls. For example of a parry roll of 6 parries one roll of a 5. The order in which the to hit dice were rolled has no bearing on the parry or when the parry happened. If he hit you 4 times and you parried one, then he may roll to wound with the 3 dice that hit.

In the next round he may not attack with the broken weapon.
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PostSubject: Re: Sword Breaker Question   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 2:42

Von Kurst wrote:

You may parry if you beat the highest of your enemy's rolls. For example of a parry roll of 6 parries one roll of a 5. The order in which the to hit dice were rolled has no bearing on the parry or when the parry happened. If he hit you 4 times and you parried one, then he may roll to wound with the 3 dice that hit.

In the next round he may not attack with the broken weapon.

As usual Von Kurst has hit the nail on the head. +1
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PostSubject: Re: Sword Breaker Question   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 2:46

@von Kurst Sword breaker destroys the weapon instantly after a succesfull "trap blade roll". So "disarmed" warrior with another attack/attacks must switch for another weapon of go with his fist in the same round. So keeping track with attack order IS important.
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PostSubject: Re: Sword Breaker Question   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 3:40

catachanfrog wrote:
@von Kurst Sword breaker destroys the weapon instantly after a succesfull "trap blade roll". So "disarmed" warrior with another attack/attacks must switch for another weapon of go with his fist in the same round. So keeping track with attack order IS important.

Sword Breaker (A02 84); 30 gc; Availability: Rare 8
The sword breaker is a specialist weapon wrought by only the most talented sword smiths. Next to the hilt are two prongs concealed within the blade that can be used to trap an opponent's blade, twisting and snapping it with a single, well time movement. Range: Close combat; Strength: As user; Special Rules:
● Parry: The sword breaker allows the wielder to parry the attacks of his opponent's in close combat. When your opponent scores a hit, roll a D6. If you can roll greater than the highest 'to hit' of your oppenent, you have parried the attack and the blow is wasted.
● Trap Blade: Whenever you make a successful parry attempt roll a D6. If you score a 4+, you break the weapon your opponent was using. The weapon is now useless and they must use another one, or if they have no other weapon, resort to unarmed combat.

The "Trap Blade" rule only activates when you make a successful parry, so you follow attacking/parrying rules as normal THEN see if you break the blade. There is nothing in the sword breaker rules that even implies a change to the standard parry rules (roll all attacks and attempt to parry the highest score) so I wouldn't even consider altering the process. Smile

This keeps things flowing and keeps them simple, I would hate to have multiple combats with multiple sword breakers all rolling attacks individually, to see when the highest hit roll was made, so that he can attempt to break the blade at that point...and then ret-conning any successful hits after that attack...but then what if you broke my sword breaker before I broke yours? etc etc etc...yeah no thanks xD
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PostSubject: Re: Sword Breaker Question   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 5:36

Quote :
The "Trap Blade" rule only activates when you make a successful parry, so you follow attacking/parrying rules as normal THEN see if you break the blade.
Hmmm. Now I see it completely differently. Without numbering attacks:
1. 4 attacks - all hit
2. parry - the highest roll was ex 4. I roll 5.
3. trap blade - I roll another 5 so the weapon is uselss.
Conclusion:
You cannot make attacks AT ALL with this weapon cause it's broken - so all your attacks with this weapon are wasted Very Happy If not: You attack me with your sword, I break it but it doesn't fall apart until next round? nonsense.
Parry roll and trap blade are
In a case of sword braker numbering attacks is important. When you number (lets say 4) attacks from 1 to 4 you will know which one you parried and than if the rest of attacks are made.
And if I broke your sword braker before you did the same -well, it is just useless. No philosophy here Very Happy
nBesides I'm amazed that players still use retarded "highest to hit" parry, not the first one.
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PostSubject: Re: Sword Breaker Question   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 6:14

You are writing new rules to explain how the item works, that's cool you can do that.

We play that you may only parry the highest roll because that's how the rules are written and they play faster that way.
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PostSubject: Re: Sword Breaker Question   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 6:36

catachanfrog wrote:
Quote :
The "Trap Blade" rule only activates when you make a successful parry, so you follow attacking/parrying rules as normal THEN see if you break the blade.
Hmmm. Now I see it completely differently. Without numbering attacks:
1. 4 attacks - all hit
2. parry - the highest roll was ex 4. I roll 5.
3. trap blade - I roll another 5 so the weapon is uselss.
Conclusion:
You cannot make attacks AT ALL with this weapon cause it's broken - so all your attacks with this weapon are wasted Very Happy If not: You attack me with your sword, I break it but it doesn't fall apart until next round? nonsense.
Parry roll and trap blade are
In a case of sword braker numbering attacks is important. When you number (lets say 4) attacks from 1 to 4 you will know which one you parried and than if the rest of attacks are made.
And if I broke your sword braker before you did the same -well, it is just useless. No philosophy here Very Happy
nBesides I'm amazed that players still use retarded "highest to hit" parry, not the first one.

Hm, to be honest, it sounds like you have issues with the way parrying works in general. xD This is cool and all, if you want to house rule parrying, but Socates asked for clarification on the rules, not suggestions for alterations to them, the vanilla rules are clear. You activate "trap blade" once you execute a successful parry, but you can only parry after all attacks have been made.

As a result if all 4 attacks hit, then you parry the highest hit and break the blade, the remaining 3 attacks will still hit as normal.

Calling the rules "retarded" doesn't change the fact that they are the official rules. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Sword Breaker Question   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 7:11

@ TheEnemyWithin - Thanks for explaining. I see what you mean now - indeed I was wrong. Sir, yes sir!
My group uses first-hit parry and before each attack we declare what weapon are we using. After the first attack roll we make parry - and that's it. In case of sword braker that would mean that I ex. "parried and broke my opponents axe so he cannot use it if he has more profile attack that round". In fact we are using it almost from the beginning so I forgot about original rolling
for all attacks at once.

@von Kurst
Quote :
You are writing new rules to explain how the item works, that's cool you can do that.
Either write something that shows I'm wrong (and why) or don't write at all.
Quote :

We play that you may only parry the highest roll because that's how the rules are written and they play faster that way.
"How the rules are written" - yeah right, and you are making no house rules or use player made warbands... Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Sword Breaker Question   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 7:39

Sword Breaker isn't very useful.
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PostSubject: Re: Sword Breaker Question   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 7:43

My thought's exactly especially when you can get killed before "trap blade" effect kicks in. In official setting of course... Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Sword Breaker Question   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 8:51

I think some of you are mis interpretting this big time.

Order of attacks are irrelevent. the core rules states that all attacks at the same initiative step are resolved at the same time.
If you attack 4 times, and one gets parried and broken, the remaining 3 still wound as the swords stat lines (or whatever weapon it was using)
Next round, however, that weapon is no longer an option.

You dont roll hits based on the previous hits success/failure in close combat. thats shooting.
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PostSubject: Re: Sword Breaker Question   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 9:04

Scoates wrote:
Sword Breaker isn't very useful.

It is actually fairly useful imo, but only really in a campaign setting. Breaking all your opponents precious gromril/lithimar/dark elf weapons is pretty funny xD

But in essence it's really just a sword with an extra ability that might on a rare occasion give you a hand in close combat. In my experience allot of fights last a good few rounds of combat(especially once everybody starts taking "step aside" and "resilient" etc etc), and if the opponent is using one weapon (two handed, spears, halbers, sword and shield etc etc) you can really hurt them in the long run, even if they take down your sword breaker dude, they are left with no weapon to fight with for the rest of the game Wink

The main drawback though is that you need to take the "weapon master" skill to use it, and in comparison to some of the other weapons made available by this skill...yeah not so good ^^ (although we house rule that any two weapons with the "parry" special rule allow parry re-rolls, so using that rule improves its usability, but thats just us)
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