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 Clarification of stat tests

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Zero2Hero-DK
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PostSubject: Clarification of stat tests   Sun 3 Jun 2012 - 11:22

Hey all,
As usual I turn to you guys when clarification is needed on rulings - always with the most humble appiciations! *deep bow*

I was thinking about different tests which is needed to be taken in various situations, such as the BS stat when more than a 6 is needed to hit the target, or when you have a model which has a initiative stat of 7, and has to test whether the model is able to make a divinity charge ect.

How do you guys go about this? my initial thought on the matter of initiative 7 or more, is that you always fail on a test result of 6.... or are there something else I'm missing from the rules?

Same thought when needing more than a 6 to hit the target when making ranged attacks, that the hit is always scored on a 6 no matter what...

What are your thoughts on the matter?
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catachanfrog
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification of stat tests   Sun 3 Jun 2012 - 12:24

Hey!
In addition to your way of solving BS difficulties I'll add another two:
1. When model can't hit something - well, he just can't! It's simple, because negative modifiers can take model's BS to zero. And when you've got zero you should not be able to hit anything. Warrior just calculates his hit/miss chances and says to himself: "that would be waste of arrows/lead" or something simillar.
2. Use Warhammer to hit table.

About characteristic tests I would propose following "system":
When 6 is automatic fail and model has more than 5 he can reroll a test using "spare" characteristic number (starting from 6) as a reroll number. As an example - failed initiative test:
model with I 6 - reroll on 6+
model with I 7 - reroll on 5+
model with I 8 - reroll on 4+
What do you think? Very Happy
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Dribble Joy
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification of stat tests   Sun 3 Jun 2012 - 12:39

7s+ to hit has come up in several GW games and generally goes as following:

7+: 6 to hit followed by a 4+
8+: 6 to hit followed by a 5+
9+: 6 to hit followed by a 6+
10+: Cannot hit.

For tests, either use '6 is always a fail' or as catachanfrog suggested.
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Zero2Hero-DK
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PostSubject: Alrighty!   Sun 3 Jun 2012 - 14:37

Firstly, thanks alot for the fast responses - it is indeed some nice suggestions!

Yes, IMO the higher initiative indeed has to reflect on the succession of the tests, which catachanfrog's solution is spot on; The higher the initiative, the greater chance of success. This makes a lot of sence..

I've heard of the "to hit" solution Dribble Joy mentioned, and I can see the meaning of it.

Thanks alot to you both, this will be the rulings we will go by in the future.

-Zero2Hero-DK
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification of stat tests   Sun 3 Jun 2012 - 14:53

Bear in mind that these are both house rules. The rulebook (regular and updated pdf) state that a characteristic test always fails on a 6.
It also makes no mention of what happens when a 7+ to hit is required. Modifiers reduce the 'to hit' roll, rather than the BS. If this takes the roll to 7+ then there is a lack of specifiaction as to what is to be done. Given that rules are generally not permissive (in that you may only do something if it states you can), by RAW it would imply that 7+ to hit is impossible, as you simply cannot roll 7+ on one D6.

It also mentions nothing about automatically missing on the roll of a one.
BS6 hits on a minimum roll of a one without modifiers, making it impossible to miss in that circumstance.

A possible house rule is that a one always misses, but if you require a base of say, 0 to hit, then you would need a -3 modifier to hit in order to require a 3+.
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification of stat tests   Tue 5 Jun 2012 - 3:44

catachanfrog wrote:

.... As an example - failed initiative test:
model with I 6 - reroll on 6+
model with I 7 - reroll on 5+
model with I 8 - reroll on 4+
What do you think? Very Happy

When using this rulings, how would you propose to go by rerolling failed tests, ie rope & hook, rabbits foot ect? would the initial roll of 6 be treated as a failed test, or would the full initiative test be taken (with the reroll in the case of I7 or something) before skills, equipment or other circumstances allow an additional reroll?

Dribble Joy wrote:

Bear in mind that these are both house rules. The rulebook (regular and updated pdf) state that a characteristic test always fails on a 6...

That's a given, but in this case I believe that the initiative stat will be more effective in respect to high values. And with this ruling, the higher initiative vaule would actually be more effective, than the vanilla rulings, and make more sense.

Dribble Joy wrote:

It also mentions nothing about automatically missing on the roll of a one.
BS6 hits on a minimum roll of a one without modifiers, making it impossible to miss in that circumstance.

A possible house rule is that a one always misses, but if you require a base of say, 0 to hit, then you would need a -3 modifier to hit in order to require a 3+.

Yes, I think we'll still use the ruling of shooting always miss on a natural 1 on the die. Same goes for AS and such.
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification of stat tests   Tue 5 Jun 2012 - 4:47

Zero2Hero-DK wrote:

When using this rulings, how would you propose to go by rerolling failed tests, ie rope & hook, rabbits foot ect? would the initial roll of 6 be treated as a failed test, or would the full initiative test be taken (with the reroll in the case of I7 or something) before skills, equipment or other circumstances allow an additional reroll?
The first thing to state would be that the second roll is not a re-roll, you would say that you require a 6 followed by a 5+. The re-roll could be used for either (but not both) of these rolls.
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification of stat tests   Tue 5 Jun 2012 - 4:57

Dribble Joy wrote:
Zero2Hero-DK wrote:

When using this rulings, how would you propose to go by rerolling failed tests, ie rope & hook, rabbits foot ect? would the initial roll of 6 be treated as a failed test, or would the full initiative test be taken (with the reroll in the case of I7 or something) before skills, equipment or other circumstances allow an additional reroll?
The first thing to state would be that the second roll is not a re-roll, you would say that you require a 6 followed by a 5+. The re-roll could be used for either (but not both) of these rolls.

Ok, that makes sense - thanks alot it's much more clear and solid now! cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification of stat tests   Wed 6 Jun 2012 - 2:17

Zero2Hero-DK wrote:

When using this rulings, how would you propose to go by rerolling failed tests, ie rope & hook, rabbits foot ect? would the initial roll of 6 be treated as a failed test, or would the full initiative test be taken (with the reroll in the case of I7 or something) before skills, equipment or other circumstances allow an additional reroll?
In this circumstance reroll takes precedence - and no more rolling for that guy. (late answer but answer neverthless Very Happy ).
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification of stat tests   Wed 6 Jun 2012 - 3:39

catachanfrog wrote:
Zero2Hero-DK wrote:

When using this rulings, how would you propose to go by rerolling failed tests, ie rope & hook, rabbits foot ect? would the initial roll of 6 be treated as a failed test, or would the full initiative test be taken (with the reroll in the case of I7 or something) before skills, equipment or other circumstances allow an additional reroll?
In this circumstance reroll takes precedence - and no more rolling for that guy. (late answer but answer neverthless Very Happy ).

I see, so if I understand you correctly the "rerolling" for having I 6 or more are treated as a reroll, and an by this rabbits foot, rope & hook ect CANNOT be used? Then its actually a waste to have rope & hook in this case confused
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification of stat tests   Wed 6 Jun 2012 - 7:11

I'm confused by the reply as well, but you MAY use a re-roll. For example if you need to roll a 6 to have a chance to hit, you may re-roll a result of 1-5 in hopes of a 6. However if you achieve the 6 you may not re-roll the second die.

In other words we play that you may re-roll either die in an attempt to hit that needs a 7+, but you may not re-roll both.
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification of stat tests   Wed 6 Jun 2012 - 8:31

No, no, no! Smile
You either use reroll from equipment OR use "reroll" granted by higher characteristic. If you fail your characteristic test again using rabbit's foot or rope and hook you're not allowed to roll any further.
This "system" is taken from 40k BS table. As you all know BS in 40k is not subject to modifiers as is in whbattle. When you'r BS 4 you are always hitting on 3+. But if someone has BS higher than 5 (as usual roll of 1 is always a failure) he may use his "above-maximum-to-hit" BS to reroll (as in my first post). However when you've something that gives you reroll normal shooting- this reroll replaces above-mentioned.
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification of stat tests   Wed 6 Jun 2012 - 18:59

We have been playing with Warhammer 6th edition's '7's to hit' rules since Warhammer 6th edition was published. And we have always allowed a re-roll from a Rabbits Foot or whatever when using those rules as described above.

catachanfrog@Your group or your rule does not allow re-rolls in this case. Both of us are using or proposing the use of a house rule so at this point I think Zero2Hero can decide which to adopt.
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification of stat tests   Today at 19:21

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