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 Ye olde obsolete weapons tread

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Horatius
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PostSubject: Re: Ye olde obsolete weapons tread   Tue 1 May 2012 - 9:27

You are wrong von Kurst - the living rulebook allows slings for both henchmen and heroes. I donīt know if this was different in the printed rulebook, but the pdf does allow it. For skaven the sling is listed under both heroes and henchmen equipment, and sisters only have one equipment list for both.
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Aureus
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PostSubject: Re: Ye olde obsolete weapons tread   Tue 1 May 2012 - 10:11

Von Kurst wrote:

As stated above Sister and Skaven henchmen only have access to slings. (I recommend checking your rulebooks if this doesn't seem true.) I do not even begin to understand your pain. Where does it hurt? Why call it a sling if it becomes the equal of a short bow? Why is one short bow 2 gc and the other 5 gc?

My view on slings is of the historic/realistic basis, but returning to "which is better: sling vs. sh. bow" argument is pointless. In fact, I would have nothing against turning slings into sh.bows (though I would retain their original price, so cheapness would be slings main advantage). Damn, I'm starting to think, that changing sling would cause sisters and skaven to be "underpowered".

Von Kurst wrote:

Why can bows, crossbows and elven bows, pistols and dueling pistols be allowed? They are all way better than a short bow.

And what that has to do with anything? So, if I don't like slings with their present rules, then should I ban all ranged combat? scratch We were thinking of something similar (in a way), if one warband will become too powerful in the course of campaign, we will announce its owner, that his leader (or the whole warband) just died . If he doesn't like the concept, we may vote Very Happy

Von Kurst wrote:

If we are only dealing with 'official' warbands, why care? No official warband shares slings and any type of bow. Slings are limited to 2 warbands. Short bows to 3 or 4. No warband that can have short bows can have ONLY short bows and none can have slings. So they are different. The character and choices of the warbands are not the same

So you increase diversity and reduce predictability by making things the same? I can't follow that. Smile I bow to your Orwellianness.

Why care? I'm a caring type of person Very Happy I'll care the living..ahem... outta everyone! cheers But seriously, ok, skaven henchmen have only slings, and all the other warbands (with the exception of the "sexy one" warband Smile ) don't have slings. After putting that into consideration I still don't like sling ruleset. You really don't have to agree with me, though you may at your leisure Cool

Von Kurst wrote:

Fixing armor fixes axes and gromril.

Quite so. But if we will find no changes in armor, that my group would accept, then maybe some weapon fixes will be better. In fact, we have some new interesting ideas for armor, I'll post them later.
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Ye olde obsolete weapons tread   Tue 1 May 2012 - 11:10

Quote :
You are wrong von Kurst - the living rulebook allows slings for both henchmen and heroes.

While I admit it is improtant that I be wrong about something, I prefer to think I was misunderstood. I had mentioned skaven heroes and slings earlier, to which a poster replied that he was talking about henchmen so I attempted to accommodate him in my subsequent posts. Perhaps Aureus was refering to the skaven warband in his post and I misuderstood his reference. For the record I am aware that skaven heroes have a choice of blowpipes, warplock pistlols, throwing knives AND slings.

My point, apparently poorly made, about slings only being available to 2 warbands and short bows being available to 3 or 4 is that sling use has no in game affect on short bow use. Henchmen from the warbands who use slings have no other choice it is their unique weapon. Henchmen from warbands who have short bows as an option can use other missile weapon choices, but short bows are their cheap option. This is a choice of the game designer that ensures that the warbands play differently.

If Mercenary, Dwarf or Elf heroes often took Weapons Expert to access slings I could perhaps understand the sling envy of the lower ranks, but this is not a 'best practice' option.

Now if you want to fix the blowpipe, go for it. Here is a weapon that is NEVER used.
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Spectre76
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PostSubject: Re: Ye olde obsolete weapons tread   Tue 1 May 2012 - 12:09

[/quote]Now if you want to fix the blowpipe, go for it. Here is a weapon that is NEVER used.[/quote]

Agreed. Have only seen it used once, and it's kinda pointless.
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PostSubject: Re: Ye olde obsolete weapons tread   Tue 1 May 2012 - 12:23

Spectre76 wrote:
Now if you want to fix the blowpipe, go for it. Here is a weapon that is NEVER used.[/quote]

Agreed. Have only seen it used once, and it's kinda pointless.[/quote]

Hmmm, then maybe: S2 [total S3], Poison (dark venom), range 10", stealthy, does not suffer from movement penalties,price: 15 + D6gc.

I am thinking of improving "black lotus" version too, but hard to think of something not over(or under) powered. Maybe a price reduction (5 + 2D6?), and/or allowing them to be used by henchmen?




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PostSubject: Re: Ye olde obsolete weapons tread   Tue 1 May 2012 - 18:56

Henchmen use might be possible. Or it might be enough just to see it used at all. Nice work.
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PostSubject: Re: Ye olde obsolete weapons tread   Wed 2 May 2012 - 5:25

Spectre76 wrote:
The cost is the same for a spear as a sword, but IRL spears are MUCH easier to produce and maintain than a sword would be. Thoughts on this? Aureus mentioned lowering the price to 8gc each. Should it be less? Should swords cost more?
If we are going historically, then both. I think it was originally that high because when the game was first released Strikes First was super-awesome.

I would make them 5-7 gold and give them Two-handed Strikes First, Two-handed parry, +1I (when using a spear one-handed you don't have the reach as you do two-handed, nor do you have the impressive leverage for parrying that you do with two hands).

I would also like to see both halberds and spears with the ability Reach that would allow you to make a single attack an enemy that is in b-to-b contact with a friendly model i.e. a kind of supporting attack. In practice I would imagine that this rule only gets used in doorways and other choke-points, but would still be handy. If it gets all of this though, I think it would be a bit too powerful and would warrent its 10 gold price. Drop parry maybe. *Shrug*.
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PostSubject: Re: Ye olde obsolete weapons tread   Wed 2 May 2012 - 6:34

I would like to see spears work like LotR spears where you can support a comrade that you are in base to base with if he is charged (or charges). That's worth 10.
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PostSubject: Re: Ye olde obsolete weapons tread   Thu 3 May 2012 - 1:06

I like most of the weapons as they are.
A spear with a model with some advances is a good defence. KG 4, S4 and A2 with a spear is pretty handy to stop most chargers.

I think most weapons will be more often used, if you armor is more often used.
We improved all armors by 1 (introducing leather armor as 6+ armor save for 5 gold) and gave the shield an extra melee bonus. After that most people wanted to get hold of at least 1 or 2 gromril weapons (preferably axes).
The handgun got more interesting. If the handgun is still not used you could increase the armor penetration by 1. The handgun would be a real can opener.

Halberds were used by henchmen. S+1 without the penalty of strikes last.

Swords+shield+light armor become a favorite defense option. For henchmen the cheaper version Shield+leather gave a 5+ range armor save and 4+ melee armor save. Or combine it with a spear. The opponents risk getting hit first and if he survived the first hit he still has to deal with the armor save.
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