Wood Elf Warband - If you have the willpower

Modifications based upon posts below and Warseer:

PDF Version Here:
Asrai Wayfarers

-Modified Equipment List (Gladewood bows and Double Handed Weapons)
-Removed Traps special skill for Pathfinder
-Removed Warhawk
-Added Distaste for poison and drugs
-Stag to large target
-Changed Talismanic Tattoos
-Modified Familiar Spite and increased cost
-Removed Enchanted Acorns
-Removed Spellsinger added 2nd Pathfinder
-Changed Treekin Spirit Guardian to 18"
-Wild Hunter now 55 gc - Way Warden now 85 gc (in line with Dwarf noble from "Treasure Hunters")
-Waywatcher adept skill, you must remain stationary
-Removed Infiltration skill, added Armour of Ariel
-Reword Bladesinger and Asrai Archery (v4)
-Treekin no longer REQUIRES spirit-touched Hero, but is severely hampered without one. (v4)
-Added Glaive to hero equipment list (v5)

Possible Modification
-Asrai Archery for Pathfinder and Glade Guard Kindred only. (file v3)
-Change name of Pathfinder to Sentinel. (v4)


Alright, Dyrnwyn inspired me to try my own hand at the Wood Elf Warband. So first of all, thanks a lot to Dyrnwyn who I took most of the concepts from, but I have made some variations based upon the things I wanted to see included or changed.

Are the changes I made still fair and playable without being to overpowered or underpowered?

Hopefully you all aren't sick of looking at Wood Elves at this point.

Some of the changes:
-Race Special Rules
-Equipment (some things added and removed)
-Skill Tables
-Skills (2 are similar, the rest are different)
-Wild Hunter/Pathfinder/Wardancer special abilities (increase in gc for almost all models)
-Treekin (very similar, but with slight variance in Stats "Not bound..." and "Spirit Guardian")
-Special Equipment (some cost increases and slight modifications)

Again, a very special Thank You to Dyrnwyn for the ideas, and getting my mind flowing.
*Also on Warseer in PDF format here:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?334878-Dueling-Wood-Elf-Warbands-If-you-have-the-willpower&p=6113664#post6113664


[b]Asrai Wayfarers

Special Rules
Excellent Sight: Elves have keen eyesight. They may spot Hidden enemies from two times as far away as other warriors (i.e. twice their initiative value in inches).
Subtle: Asrai combat tactics do not permit wearing any armor other than light or Ilthimar armor, or the use of any black power weapons.
Long Lived: Asrai are elves, and the deeds that a henchman must do to gain recognition are great – The first time “The Lads Got Talent” is rolled for any Henchman advance, re-roll it.
Distrusting: Asrai Wayfarers are distrustful of placing their Fate in anyone else's hands. They may only hire the Elf Ranger.
Asrai Archery: Asrai are mobile archers without equal. Sentinels and Glade Guard do not incur the -1 to hit modifier for moving and shooting, when firing at targets in short range if using a bow (Long, Gladewood, etc).
Distaste for Poisons and Drugs: The wood elves believe in the purity of spirit in nature and therefore will not use any poisons or drugs that are not naturally occurring or that alter the elves physique. The Wood Elves may not use any poison or drugs.

Asrai Equipment List
The following list is used by Wayfarers to pick their equipment
Hero Equipment List
Hand-to-Hand Combat Weapons
Dagger....................................................................... 1st free/2 gc
Staff……………...…………........................………….. 3 gc
Sword......................................................................... 10 gc
Spear........................................................................... 15 gc
Glaive (Halberd)...........................................................10 gc
Blade Staff……........................................................... 25 gc

Missile Weapons
Bow............................................................................. 10 gc
Longbow...................................................................... 15 gc
Gladewood Bow ......................................................... 40 gc

Armour
Light Armour.............................................................. 20 gc
Shield........................................................................... 5 gc
Helmet......................................................................... 10 gc

Miscellaneous
Hunting Arrows ......................................................... 25 gc
Wardog/Hound(Wild Hunter Only)............................... 25 gc


Henchmen Equipment List
Hand-to-Hand Combat Weapons
Dagger............................................................ 1st free/2 gc
Sword......................................................................... 10 gc
Spear.......................................................................... 10 gc
Glaive (Halberd).......................................................... 10 gc
Double-Handed Weapon............................................. 15 gc

Missile Weapons
Bow........................................................................... 10 gc
Longbow.................................................................... 15 gc

Armour
Light Armour............................................................. 20 gc
Shield........................................................................... 5 gc

Skills Table:
Waywarden: Combat - Shooting - Academic - Speed - Special
Wild Hunter: Combat - Strength - Special
Sentinel: Shooting - Speed - Special


Skills:
Waywatcher Adept
This hero gains +1 to injury rolls when using a bow if he remains stationary.

Spirit-touched
This hero is immune to Fear and All Alone tests.

Talismanic Tattoos
The Hero has learned how to adorn himself in blessed warpaint and tattoos. He may make a 6+ unmodified armor save. Not combinable with other armour.

Bladesinger (Way Warden and Wardancer Only)
The hero is a master of wardancer weaponry; he may use a glaive (halberd) as a single-handed weapon, he may not carry another glaive, but may carry another single-handed weapon in the other hand.

Sense Corruption
The hero has seen the plague of chaos first hand and hates all models in Beastmen, Carnival of Chaos and Cult of the Possessed warbands.

Armour of Ariel
The hero has been protected by wards of the Stewards of Ariel, he can dispel magic cast on him on a 5+.


Heroes
1 Way Warden
85 gold crowns to hire
The Way Warden is the leader of the Wayfarers, he has
knowledge about the mystic Moonstones and the Ways. He is
trained to survive and interact with other races in the realms
outside Athel Loren.
Weapons/Armor: The Way Warden selects weapons and
armor chosen from the Hero Equipment list.

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 5 4 3 3 1 5 1 8

SPECIAL RULES
Leader: Any warrior within 6” of the Way Warden may use
his Leadership when taking any Leadership tests.


0-1 Wild Hunter
50 gold crowns to hire
Wild Hunters are Asrai who have started down the path
towards their own wild natures. Those who survive trials may
enter the Alter or Wild Rider kindreds.
Weapons/Armor: The Wild Hunter may be equipped with
weapons and armor chosen from the Hero Equipment list.

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 4 3 3 3 1 5 1 7

SPECIAL RULES
Affinity with Beasts: The Wild Hunter may be accompanied
by a Wardog (Hunting Hound) or Stag. The beast does not count
against the warbands total models. (See equipment for rules)

0-2 Sentinel
45 gold crowns to hire
Experts in ambush, Sentinels are accomplished hunters and
scouts. These skills are put to use in the world as Wayfarers.
Weapons/Armor: A Sentinel may be equipped with
weapons and armor chosen from the Hero Equipment
list.

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 3 4 3 3 1 5 1 7


Henchmen
0+ Glade Guard Kindred
30 gold crowns to hire
The defensive militias of the Asrai often learn about their
foes by taking rotating posts in Wayfarer bands.
Weapons/Armor: Glade Guard may choose weapons and
armor chosen from the Henchmen Equipment list.

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 3 3 3 3 1 4 1 7

0-3 Wardancer Initiates
45 gold crowns to hire
Young Wardancers occasionally take spots in Wayfarer
bands, to entertain the Wayfarers and seek out tales of
adventure.
Weapons/Armor: Wardancers never wear armor and may
only choose Hand-to-Hand weapons from the Henchman list.

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 4 2 3 3 1 5 1 7

SPECIAL RULES
Storm of Blades: A Wardancer attacks in such an
unpredictable and hypnotic manner an opponent may only
parry if their weapon skill is equal to or higher than the
Wardancer.

Combat Specialists: If a Wardancer becomes a hero by “The
Lads Got Talent,” he must select Combat and Special skills.

0-1 Treekin
220 gold crowns to hire
Forest spirits sometimes take physical form in dead trees or
large fallen branches. When called upon by their Elven Spiritkin
the spirit animates the wood as a temporary body to assist
the Asrai in the furtherance of their quest.
Weapons/Armor: Branchlike limbs and Barkskin (5+ Armor
Save).

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 3 0 4 5 3 3 3 6

SPECIAL RULES
Large Target: Treekin are large targets per the shooting rules
Fear: Treekin cause fear and are immune to All Alone tests.
Flammable: A Treekin receives double wounds from flaming or fire-based attacks.
Elemental: Treekin are woodland spirits who are temporarily bound to organic matter, they do not gain experience.
Not Bound To This Form: If the Treekin is slain, only on a roll of 1 is it removed from the roster, on a 2-6 it misses the next battle while the spirit searches for an appropriate dead tree to be its new body.
Spirit Guardian: The Forest Spirit is tied to their Elven Spirit-kin. If a Spirit-Touched Hero is not within 18” of the Treekin, its movement, attack and initiative characteristics are reduced to 1 as it searches to be reconnected with a kindred spirit and the dead tree begins to revert to its original form.

Asrai Special Equipment


Blade Staff
30 gc - Rare 9
Range Strength Special Rules
Close Combat As User (+1 if charging) Two-handed, Parry,
Additional Attack

Parry: A Wood Elf armed with the Blade Staff may parry
blows as per the rules under swords.
Two-Handed: A model armed with an Blade Staff may not
use a shield, buckler, or additional weapon in close combat. If
the model is equipped with a shield he will still get a +1 bonus
to his Armor save against shooting.
Additional Attack: The user gains an additional attack when
using this weapon. When used in this fashion, the normal
rules for fighting with two weapons apply.

Hunting Arrows
25 + D6 gc – Rare 8
The best hunting arrows are sharp, barbed arrowheads which
cause excruciating pain when they hit their target. A skilled
archer can severely injure his target with a single arrow. A
model using a short bow, bow, long bow, Elf bow or
Gladewood bow may use these arrows. They add +1 to all
Injury rolls.

Gladewood Bow
50 + 2D6 gc – Rare 11
This bow is specially fashioned by elven bow masters from
some of the strongest trees in Athel Loren, and then treated
with a magical resin to produce powerful shots. A Glade-wood
Bow functions as a longbow with the following exception:
All shots at targets in short range (15”) are counted as
strength 4.

Elven Cloak
80 + D6x10 gc– Rare 10
Made from the hair of Elven maidens and interwoven with
living tree leaves, an Elven cloak is a wonder to behold. A
warrior wearing such a cloak will blend into the shadows,
making it very difficult to shoot at them with missile weapons.
Elven cloaks rarely come up for sale, but are sometimes
recovered from dead warriors or offered by Elves as rewards to
men who have served them in some way. A warrior aiming a
missile weapon at a warrior wearing an Elven cloak suffers – 1
on his to hit roll. Elven cloaks are easier to acquire for Wood
Elves.

Familiar Spite
150 + D6x10 gc - Rare 12 (Sprit-touched hero only)
Sometimes a curious forest spite will come to live with or
around a Wood Elf. Usually only found within the forest, these
spites will leave only with those they consider special. Roll a d3
once on the following table – This spite may not be sold back
or exchanged with another member of the band. No more than
a single spite per hero.

1 – Terrifying: This model causes fear.
2 – Nurturing: This model can recover one wound at any
time, once per game on a roll of 4+. This can be used to avoid going out of action.
3 – Distracting: Enemy models in close combat with this model have a -1 to-hit modifier in the first round of combat.
Additionally, the fortunate presence of the spite allows the hero to re-roll a single die, once per game.

0-1 Beasts
A Wild Hunter may be accompanied by only one of the
following animal companions. Only the Wardog – (Hunting Hound) is available when the Warband is initially created. The other animal may be located during the campaign. If a new animal is located, the animal it is replacing is returned to Athel Loren and must be removed from the Hunter’s equipment list.

Wardog (Hunting Hound)
(Wild Hunter Only)
25 + 2D6 gc - Rare 8
Wardogs and Hounds never gain experience, and if
they are put out of action they have exactly the same chance of
recovering as Henchmen (i.e., 1-2: Dead; 3-6: Alive).

Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Wardog 6 4 0 4 3 1 4 1 5

Wild Stag
(Wild Hunter Only)
50 + 2D6 gc – Rare 10
Stags never gain experience, and if they are put out of action
they have exactly the same chance of recovering as Henchmen
(i.e., 1-2: Dead; 3-6: Alive). A Wild Stag may not be used as a
mount.
SPECIAL RULES
Ramming Charge: When charging a Wild Stag lowers its
head and runs at a near unstoppable speed. The Wild Stag has
+1 Strength when charging.

Large Target

Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Wild Stag 8 3 0 4 3 1 4 1 5

The Gladebow with hunting arrows, Quickshot and Waywatcher Adept gives you 2 range attacks with up to S4 and +2 on the injury rolls...
and you aren't restricted from poison to increase this firepower even more...
and you don't get movement penalties on shooting...

I think it is to strong. I don't see a good change to pinpoint the elves, to get them into melee...

You could give some penalties on your skills:
Waywatcher Adept
The elve can aim weak spots on his enemy.
Option A: because of the carefull aim, it can't be combined with quickshot
Option B: If you hit with a 6 you hit a weak spot and get +1 on injury rolls
Option C: You get a malus to hit for your better aiming, but gets +1 on injury rolls.
Option D: Can only be used if the modells hid the turn before.

The gladebow should be heroes only. Its enough, if some have this firepower, but not all...

And remove the Asrai Archer rule. It may fit, but it makes them to difficult to fight...
Or give it only some elves like scouts and the wayfarer (0-3), perhaps they are the only ones who can use gladebows.

If you have an Asrai player, who knows how to prevent you from running with low risk(the hawk in high ground but in 8" from the enemy), can hold you in short range but outside your charge distance and shoot you with S4 to ground...

Actually i don't see a reason to use melee over range.

Well, they say imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, but I have to say that overall, I dislike it.

Here's the rundown of things I dislike -

• I changed Asrai Archery to only short range - in retrospect the original version is quite powerful.
  
• Spirit-touched is way more powerful than my version. I left it as a double skill because it was meant to be a naff choice that opened the gates for Treekin and Sprites.
  
• My talismanic tattoos are simply a 6+ unmodifiable save (and a 6+ save against magic), yours are a true ward - taken after other saves, and are available to anyone who rolls a skill.
  
• Bladesinger and Infiltration being restricted to two heroes each rustles my jimmies. I'm cool with restrictions on one special skill, but two bothers me. Especially annoying given that you've got restriction to a henchman type on Bladesinger in combination with Long Lived.
  
• Sense Corruption is interesting without being gamebreaking, but it'll just gather dust if you're not facing those warbands.
  
• Pathfinder's traps are essentially worthless. They'll do jack squat until he takes Infiltration as an advance, and enemy warbands can see where it is, and can walk around it. If you make it hidden, it's a huge gamble that anyone even walks near that area.
  
• Wild Hunter - It's clear you like the Alter Kindred and I favor the Wild Rider here, but like I said, I dislike beasts as warband members. others may not be as disagreeable.
  
• Your Wardancers are particularly nasty - denying parries is pretty huge in the early game were people eschew armor for bucklers and swords. I dislike the restriction on skill lists.
  
• Oddly enough, your Treekin is in my opinion, severely underpowered. It's a touch faster than my last version of it, but the drawbacks are immense. Trading 16% death chance for missing the next game every time it's taken OOA isn't great, especially combined with your version of Spirit Guardian which means that your opponents will dogpile on the Spirit-touched model first or try for a polearm crit to push him away, then murder the Treekin while it's WS1, I1, A1. I'd rather pick up another elf henchman rather than the Treekin with those drawbacks.
  
• The animals... aside from the fact that I dislike animals in warbands on principle, I feel like they are a huge waste of time. Go for anything other than the dog and you're sinking enough money into it that you could buy and equip a new warband member, who could have armor, ranged attack, and two weapons. You waste a rare roll trying to find these albatrosses, and even the dog is Rare 9, so it''s not easily replaced if you lose it. Pricewise, given the choice between a Stag or Gladewood Bow, or the Warhawk and an Elven Cloak, I wouldn't even bother with the animals. If I were playing this warband the animals would remain untouched until my warband was full and I had pretty good equipment on several guys already. Plus, three equipment entries just for one model when you can only have one at a time strikes me as a waste of space.

That said, there are aspects that I do like.

• You did include the standard Elf rules (Sharp Sight and Subtle), which I had forgotten.
  
• Sense Corruption is fluffy and interesting.
  
• I noticed a lot of little fixes and adjustments in some rules for clarifications.
  
• I'm not entirely happy with some of the changes to the Lore, but I agree with most of them.
  
• Looking at your price on the Spite, I've reconsidered my stance on his price - he can be expensive.

There are aspects of your re-write that I'll gladly adapt - I'm going to drop Forest Spirit and Woodland Adept from my skill list, and tweak my spells, but by and large I'm not sold on your changes.

Would Wood Elves use Ithimir armor? I thought it was more a High Elf thing?

Dyrnwyn wrote:

Well, they say imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, but I have to say that overall, I dislike it.

So we begin with a shot across the bow, fair enough.

Dyrnwyn wrote:

[*]I changed Asrai Archery to only short range - in retrospect the original version is quite powerful.

I agree, seems like a proper change, and more in line with real physics, (easier to aim while moving at closer targets.)

Dyrnwyn wrote:

[*]Spirit-touched is way more powerful than my version. I left it as a double skill because it was meant to be a naff choice that opened the gates for Treekin and Sprites.

Yeah, the dispel may be too much, but I was going from the wood elf book Forest Spirit rule. A modification here is probably needed.

Dyrnwyn wrote:

[*]My talismanic tattoos are simply a 6+ unmodifiable save (and a 6+ save against magic), yours are a true ward - taken after other saves, and are available to anyone who rolls a skill.

I was basing this on the Combat and Speed Skills, Step Aside and Dodge, respectively. They both use the “taken after other saves” language and so since this was a 6+ rather than 5+ I made it against both shooting and close combat.

Dyrnwyn wrote:

[*]Bladesinger and Infiltration being restricted to two heroes each rustles my jimmies. I'm cool with restrictions on one special skill, but two bothers me. Especially annoying given that you've got restriction to a henchman type on Bladesinger in combination with Long Lived.

Which one would you open back up to all, infiltration maybe? I actually thought about scrapping infiltration in favor of a different skill.

Dyrnwyn wrote:

[*]Sense Corruption is interesting without being gamebreaking, but it'll just gather dust if you're not facing those warbands.

Agreed

Dyrnwyn wrote:

[*]Pathfinder's traps are essentially worthless. They'll do jack squat until he takes Infiltration as an advance, and enemy warbands can see where it is, and can walk around it. If you make it hidden, it's a huge gamble that anyone even walks near that area.

I wouldn’t say worthless. If the Pathfinder sets up the trap next to a stationary shooting model, the opponent either has to go 1-on-1 in shooting with that model or charge, thus setting off the trap. Or if being pursued the Wood Elf player can move to the trap and cause a potential additional hit on the pursuer.

Dyrnwyn wrote:

[*]Your Wardancers are particularly nasty - denying parries is pretty huge in the early game were people eschew armor for bucklers and swords. I dislike the restriction on skill lists.

I felt that due to the Deny Parry special rule, a restriction was needed, plus he gets (3) skills for a henchman (this is or isn’t a bonus depending on how you play), and I upped the cost per model and lowered to 0-3.

Dyrnwyn wrote:

[*]Oddly enough, your Treekin is in my opinion, severely underpowered. It's a touch faster than my last version of it, but the drawbacks are immense. Trading 16% death chance for missing the next game every time it's taken OOA isn't great, especially combined with your version of Spirit Guardian which means that your opponents will dogpile on the Spirit-touched model first or try for a polearm crit to push him away, then murder the Treekin while it's WS1, I1, A1. I'd rather pick up another elf henchman rather than the Treekin with those drawbacks.

Lower the gc maybe? Or increase the profile WS?

Dyrnwyn wrote:

[*]The animals... aside from the fact that I dislike animals in warbands on principle, I feel like they are a huge waste of time. Go for anything other than the dog and you're sinking enough money into it that you could buy and equip a new warband member, who could have armor, ranged attack, and two weapons. You waste a rare roll trying to find these albatrosses, and even the dog is Rare 9, so it''s not easily replaced if you lose it. Pricewise, given the choice between a Stag or Gladewood Bow, or the Warhawk and an Elven Cloak, I wouldn't even bother with the animals. If I were playing this warband the animals would remain untouched until my warband was full and I had pretty good equipment on several guys already. Plus, three equipment entries just for one model when you can only have one at a time strikes me as a waste of space.

The biggest advantage is that you get a 13th model in your warband. However, maybe lower the gc? Or make them easier to obtain? I think the fact that both the Stag and Warhawk have over an 16” charge, and the Warhawk in particular can charge a model as soon as it comes into play, are pretty big advantages.

Dyrnwyn wrote:

]There are aspects of your re-write that I'll gladly adapt - I'm going to drop Forest Spirit and Woodland Adept from my skill list, and tweak my spells, but by and large I'm not sold on your changes.

Please, don’t feel obligated to make changes, unless you like the concepts. This wasn’t meant to be a “this or that or something in between” scenario. I wanted to put together a list for my group that I liked, they may shoot this one down in favor of yours, or we may end up with a mix. Just some other ideas and possibilities.

Sgt. Mulcayhee wrote:

Yeah, the dispel may be too much, but I was going from the wood elf book Forest Spirit rule. A modification here is probably needed.

The army book Forest Spirit rule grants a 5+ Ward that is negated by magic or magical attacks, so that's pretty much the opposite of what you were trying for there.

Sgt. Mulcayhee wrote:

I was basing this on the Combat and Speed Skills, Step Aside and Dodge, respectively. They both use the “taken after other saves” language and so since this was a 6+ rather than 5+ I made it against both shooting and close combat.

Yeah, but this is a STACKING save. You can have an armor save, a dodge/step aside save,anda tattoo save.

Sgt. Mulcayhee wrote:

Which one would you open back up to all, infiltration maybe? I actually thought about scrapping infiltration in favor of a different skill.

I dislike Infiltration - I would scrap it entirely. Bladesinger should be open to all - make spears lose Strikes First when wielded this way, or don't allow spears to use it.

Sgt. Mulcayhee wrote:

I wouldn’t say worthless. If the Pathfinder sets up the trap next to a stationary shooting model, the opponent either has to go 1-on-1 in shooting with that model or charge, thus setting off the trap. Or if being pursued the Wood Elf player can move to the trap and cause a potential additional hit on the pursuer.

Until you get Infiltration, yes, worthless. Must be placed within 6" of starting position. That means at best, 14" on the board. Unless your deployment position is incredibly freaking awesome, like a bell-tower with amazing sightlines that you just want to camp out in, the trap is worthless. It's a possibility of a S3 hit that enemies can easily avoid. It's one of those rules that's just not going to work how you want it to. I've played with traps in 40k - enemies will either avoid them, or they go off and they do very little damage.

Sgt. Mulcayhee wrote:

Please, don’t feel obligated to make changes, unless you like the concepts. This wasn’t meant to be a “this or that or something in between” scenario. I wanted to put together a list for my group that I liked, they may shoot this one down in favor of yours, or we may end up with a mix. Just some other ideas and possibilities.

I don't feel obligated - I feel some changes, like hero cost and spite cost, are genuinely good changes. Actually, I think despite my comments - your warband is overall much more powerful. With the exception of the Treekin and Pathfinder, every model is overall better than mine. The Wild Hunter, despite my knocking on the animals, gets to bring an extra member to the warband. The reason I knock on the animals is that from a player's perspective, they are no more durable than henchmen, are much harder to find and replace. From a design standpoint, you've wasted half a page to make three pieces of unique equipment that are restricted to one model and are mutually exclusive. That said, the stag and warhawk are quite powerful - M8-9 is pretty huge, and the Hawk's ability to simply turn up and charge is beyond even 40k's Deep Strike - there's no scatter, no mishap chance, not even a 'to-hit' roll with the falcon. It's surefire, which is big. Plus, I'm pretty sure the stag and the warhawk ought to be Large Targets.

You have FAR more sources of boosted Str stuff than my band has. My band has the Treekin, blade staves on the charge, and short-range Gladewood Bows. Eventually blade staves might be S5 on the charge, and the poisonous Spite might help, but by and large my elves are limited to S4. You have Halberds for henchmen, double-handed weapons on the heroes, your Wild Hunter starts at S4, the Stag is S5 on the charge, Gladewood Bows are available to henchmen, and you've incentivized Ladding Wardancers by giving them a unique skill. I don't view the Combat Shooting Special skill lists as a boost because locally we play that racial Special skill-lists are always available to members of that band.

Couple other comments - I don't feel dropping the cost on the Treekin will help. Going down to M1, I1, A1, basically means you will never buy a Treekin until every single Hero you have is Spirit-touched, and even then, you have to baby the thing because if it charges out of the umbrella, or the umbrella charges away from it, it's HOSED. Your rule doesn't have a gate - it doesn't check for distance at a particular time, so if the Treekin EVER leave the umbrella, it immediately suffers a stat drop. This means order of operations becomes incredibly important, and the Treekin is flat out useless if you don't have two Spirit-touched heroes in the band, because it and the ST hero become rooted. If the hero charges or runs, the Treekin debuffs. If the Treekin charges, it debuffs. So basically you need multiple ST heroes to use the Treekin at all, and if that's the case, your version of Spirit-touched basically makes the warband more magic resistant than dwarves. Part of the problem that I've realized with making my warband is simply making something cost more or more rare doesn't make it balanced - it makes it harder to obtain, but once you have it, you're still better off than Joe Everyman with his mercs.

Saranor wrote:

The Gladebow with hunting arrows, Quickshot and Waywatcher Adept gives you 2 range attacks with up to S4 and +2 on the injury rolls...
and you aren't restricted from poison to increase this firepower even more...
and you don't get movement penalties on shooting...

I think it is to strong. I don't see a good change to pinpoint the elves, to get them into melee...

You could give some penalties on your skills:
Waywatcher Adept
The elve can aim weak spots on his enemy.
Option A: because of the carefull aim, it can't be combined with quickshot
Option B: If you hit with a 6 you hit a weak spot and get +1 on injury rolls
Option C: You get a malus to hit for your better aiming, but gets +1 on injury rolls.
Option D: Can only be used if the modells hid the turn before.

The gladebow should be heroes only. Its enough, if some have this firepower, but not all...

And remove the Asrai Archer rule. It may fit, but it makes them to difficult to fight...
Or give it only some elves like scouts and the wayfarer (0-3), perhaps they are the only ones who can use gladebows.

If you have an Asrai player, who knows how to prevent you from running with low risk(the hawk in high ground but in 8" from the enemy), can hold you in short range but outside your charge distance and shoot you with S4 to ground...

Actually i don't see a reason to use melee over range.

Asrai Archery changed to short range only,

Gladebows now heroes only.

Warhawk is gone.

Poison and Drug Restriction included.

Dyrnwyn wrote:

Yeah, but this is a STACKING save. You can have an armor save, a dodge/step aside save,anda tattoo save.

Changed to Armor save, not combined with other armor.

Dyrnwyn wrote:

Until you get Infiltration, yes, worthless. Must be placed within 6" of starting position. That means at best, 14" on the board. Unless your deployment position is incredibly freaking awesome, like a bell-tower with amazing sightlines that you just want to camp out in, the trap is worthless. It's a possibility of a S3 hit that enemies can easily avoid. It's one of those rules that's just not going to work how you want it to. I've played with traps in 40k - enemies will either avoid them, or they go off and they do very little damage.

Traps Gone

Dyrnwyn wrote:

Couple other comments - I don't feel dropping the cost on the Treekin will help. Going down to M1, I1, A1, basically means you will never buy a Treekin until every single Hero you have is Spirit-touched, and even then, you have to baby the thing because if it charges out of the umbrella, or the umbrella charges away from it, it's HOSED. Your rule doesn't have a gate - it doesn't check for distance at a particular time, so if the Treekin EVER leave the umbrella, it immediately suffers a stat drop. This means order of operations becomes incredibly important, and the Treekin is flat out useless if you don't have two Spirit-touched heroes in the band, because it and the ST hero become rooted. If the hero charges or runs, the Treekin debuffs. If the Treekin charges, it debuffs. So basically you need multiple ST heroes to use the Treekin at all, and if that's the case, your version of Spirit-touched basically makes the warband more magic resistant than dwarves.

Upped the distance to 18" but even if there is no spirit-touched in range, it still is a WS 3 ST 4 T 5 with a single attack in H-t-H, which isn't too bad as long as it is already in combat.

Change "Pathfinder" name to:

1. Scout
2. Sentinel (Scout Kindred)
3. Hawkeye (Scout Kindred)
4. Pathwatcher (Waywatcher Kindred)
5. Shadow Strider (Waywatcher Kindred)
6. Mist Walker (Waywatcher Kindred)
More in line with 6th Edition fluff (Wood elf Kindreds)
or
7. Keep it as Pathfinder
8. Something else: _________________

What is your favorite, or most fluffy?

*Edit* Really? Nothing? No love at all?

Updated rules - now in line with current PDF on warseer.