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 Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers

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Dyrnwyn
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PostSubject: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Fri 17 Feb 2012 - 19:29

Hey all - I've posted this up on Warseer, and didn't get many views or comments there, so I figured I'd try a more focused group to give me feedback. I developed this warband initially for a campaign because I was dissatisfied the the Mordheimer version of Asrai, and a fellow player was also building a Tzneetchian Chaos Warriors homebrew, so I figured 'why not?' In that campaign the Wayfarers had 5 heroes, the Falcon allowed +1/-1 on exploration, treesinging turned a ruin into a forest, and spites were cheaper and easier to find, along with a host of other things which have been since removed, made more expensive or downgraded. It was still fairly lackluster, but I think that was largely due to how staggeringly overpowered the homebrew Chaos Warriors were. I'm trying to bring this band more in line with standard warbands now while I'm not playing. After having taken some suggestions and had some typos pointed out on Warseer - here's the latest version of the rules. I appreciate any comments!

Asrai Wayfarers
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Sat 18 Feb 2012 - 12:30

worth the read folks! its a good list IMO!
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Mon 20 Feb 2012 - 14:59

Thanks for the vote of confidence Zekk - looks like I'm getting more useful feedback on Warseer at the moment though.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Tue 21 Feb 2012 - 4:19

I'm on a reeeeeaaaally slow internet connection so didn't really fancy waiting around all day to download the list is there any chance you could copy and paste it to this thread?
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Tue 21 Feb 2012 - 7:15

dont forget dude, a lot of the people on that forum are on here as well !!
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Tue 21 Feb 2012 - 9:28

If you could post it here and now with a link that needs a download would be great.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Tue 21 Feb 2012 - 9:36

Pervavita wrote:
If you could post it here and now with a link that needs a download would be great.


uhhhh he did! Sleep
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Tue 21 Feb 2012 - 11:23

I followed the above link. Said link brings you to a place to down load.
I am asking for it not to need to be downloaded/post it in the first post.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Tue 21 Feb 2012 - 13:21

I like the list, seems pretty balanced, but for homebrew bands I don't like too much unique equipment - a couple of items is all that is needed to really up the Asrai flavour in my mind. There's not much point reskinning items either IMO.

I'm also not a fan of warbands for a race that feature a little of everything (like a typical WHFB army in minimized size). I always go for theme and fluff over trying to cram too many niche troop types in one warband list. That is personal prefence however, and I know it is not shared with most people.

That said, what you have done seems balanced and I'd be happy both to face it and to play with it myself.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Tue 21 Feb 2012 - 13:38

5pointer wrote:
I like the list, seems pretty balanced, but for homebrew bands I don't like too much unique equipment - a couple of items is all that is needed to really up the Asrai flavour in my mind. There's not much point reskinning items either IMO.

I'm also not a fan of warbands for a race that feature a little of everything (like a typical WHFB army in minimized size). I always go for theme and fluff over trying to cram too many niche troop types in one warband list. That is personal prefence however, and I know it is not shared with most people.

That said, what you have done seems balanced and I'd be happy both to face it and to play with it myself.

agreed on all points.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Tue 21 Feb 2012 - 14:17

Personally I don't like the Gladeguard bow. There's already an Elf bow. I'd rather the 4S close-range shots be a skill. The thornblade I understand, since no GWS Elf models wield maces.

If you combine the skill Waywatcher Taught with hunting arrows your shooting attacks get +2 injury, which is pretty mean.

Only four heroes is good. Better than the original.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Tue 21 Feb 2012 - 14:22

hero wrote:
The thornblade I understand, since no GWS Elf models wield maces.

But, to play Devil's advocate, why do they need a club/mace equivalent?

Other warbands have been denied various weapons before, why find a workaround so the Wood Elves get a bit of everything?
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Tue 21 Feb 2012 - 16:14

Power Draw or something? Give it as a special skill. Or maybe as a misc equipment that certain henchmen groups can get too. I know the bow is from the tabletop, but it may need to be a slight different to make it work in a skirmish game.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Tue 21 Feb 2012 - 16:28

i dont think the bow needs to be changed. its effectively a bow & crossbow in one. with a bit less range on the XBow part of it.

Granted, get three of these guys with glade bows, hunting arrows, that shooting skill and quick shot.. and youre in a world of pain. its enough to decimate an entire warband in one volley of shooting.

Although one COULD restrict glade bows to heroes with base strength 4. that would make sense fluff wise even. it would also keep the band from spamming these things early on in a campaign
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Wed 22 Feb 2012 - 22:15

5pointer wrote:
hero wrote:
The thornblade I understand, since no GWS Elf models wield maces.

But, to play Devil's advocate, why do they need a club/mace equivalent?

Other warbands have been denied various weapons before, why find a workaround so the Wood Elves get a bit of everything?

I agree. I posted a similar comment on Warseer (Brother Fenix)
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Thu 23 Feb 2012 - 9:47

Zekk wrote:
i dont think the bow needs to be changed. its effectively a bow & crossbow in one. with a bit less range on the XBow part of it.

Granted, get three of these guys with glade bows, hunting arrows, that shooting skill and quick shot.. and youre in a world of pain. its enough to decimate an entire warband in one volley of shooting.

Although one COULD restrict glade bows to heroes with base strength 4. that would make sense fluff wise even. it would also keep the band from spamming these things early on in a campaign

I like this idea. It has always bothered me a little in general that there are no special bows that let archers take advantage of high strength.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Thu 23 Feb 2012 - 9:54

I would also ditch the thorn blade. If it is going to be there it should be different than existing weapons. Personally, I don't see the need. Perhaps it should be a more expensive version of the axe with better armor penetration.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Thu 23 Feb 2012 - 19:12

I had a go at the problematic wood elves a little bit ago http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t6163-wood-elf-warband and i went with the idea of toned down black lotus for the thorn dagger so on a to hit of a 6 it adds +1S to the hit. For a 5gc weapon I thought this was an interesting but not over powered effect.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Fri 24 Feb 2012 - 16:13

Okay everyone, got some good feedback on Warseer, and took into account some of the feedback here. Thronblades are out - they're just clubs now. Gladewood Bows are staying, but I'm debating upping their cost for the starting equipment list. The Falcon and Hunting arrows have been removed from the starting equipment list. And major changes to the Treekin, as that seemed to be the primary point of contention on Warseer.

Asrai Wayfarers v2.2

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure why my links are going through Ad Fly - the raw links I'm posting go directly to 4shared, but the forum seems to be sticking the Adfly bit on there itself.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Sat 25 Feb 2012 - 10:23

I'm really liking this. My only concerns are mostly about the Familiar Spite. A few of the abilities on him are really powerful. D6 extra S2 attacks in melee? Really good. D3 would be enough to make it powerful! Are they on the user's Ws and Initiative? Personally something as powerful as the Spite I would make one per warband. But I would also make it so you rolled on the chart before each battle to see what the spite felt like that battle!

Also by poisoned 4+ I assume you are referring to the non-mordheim (ie 40K or poisons where poison is a roll to wound?

The Asrai Archery rule seems a bit powerful for a full out shooting warband. I would limit it to heroes only OR make it for short range only. So they are really skilled at moving and shooting close targets, or any hero is a super skilled archer. The rule makes perfect sense for WFB but in Mordheim that would make them killer archers that were almost impossible to pin down for most teams. Even with loads of terrain. Although i would not say it is TOO game breaking if you really feel it is necessary.

For the Tree-kin you intended it to get 3 attacks right? 2 base and then an additional for having 2 'clubs'? Just want to clarify what you intended.

I REALLY like the Not Bound to this Form rule! Fun way to help reduce potential cost of a big guy's loss, but still a risk if you don't got the cash on hand and roll a 1!

Also the special skills are excellent and great for the feel I am getting from the warband.

Also you may want to clarify they can only hire Non-dark elf hired swords. Just in case.

All in all I am going to recommend this warband to my Wife who had been using the one from Mousilin, and I'll see which she likes better!





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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Sat 25 Feb 2012 - 21:48

BalrogTheBuff wrote:
I'm really liking this. My only concerns are mostly about the Familiar Spite. A few of the abilities on him are really powerful. D6 extra S2 attacks in melee? Really good. D3 would be enough to make it powerful! Are they on the user's Ws and Initiative? Personally something as powerful as the Spite I would make one per warband. But I would also make it so you rolled on the chart before each battle to see what the spite felt like that battle!
The D6 attacks are supposed to be at the users WS and Initiative - and yeah, I suppose it is rather powerful. I can reduce that to D3. .

BalrogTheBuff wrote:
Also by poisoned 4+ I assume you are referring to the non-mordheim (ie 40K or poisons where poison is a roll to wound?
Yes - that was the intention. I forgot about Mordheim poisons working differently - I should probably either elaborate or give it a specific Mordhiem poison, huh?

BalrogTheBuff wrote:
The Asrai Archery rule seems a bit powerful for a full out shooting warband. I would limit it to heroes only OR make it for short range only. So they are really skilled at moving and shooting close targets, or any hero is a super skilled archer. The rule makes perfect sense for WFB but in Mordheim that would make them killer archers that were almost impossible to pin down for most teams. Even with loads of terrain. Although i would not say it is TOO game breaking if you really feel it is necessary.
I group tends to play with quite a lot of terrain, so ranges beyond 15" are hardly ever used unless you manage to take position on a clock tower or guard tower. But I think that no penalties for moving at at short range is actually a good fit for it, to keep the band from being able to kite other bands indefinitely.

BalrogTheBuff wrote:
For the Tree-kin you intended it to get 3 attacks right? 2 base and then an additional for having 2 'clubs'? Just want to clarify what you intended.
Yes, that was intended. I discussed significantly dropping multiple stats on Warseer to make it's primary advantage being simply being able to tank damage, but someone pointed out that without a serious threat, he'd just be ignored. Listing it's armament as clubs and heavy armor also cut down on the number of unique rules it would have.

BalrogTheBuff wrote:
I REALLY like the Not Bound to this Form rule! Fun way to help reduce potential cost of a big guy's loss, but still a risk if you don't got the cash on hand and roll a 1!
Thanks! It came about in the discussion of the Treekin on Warseer. Zekk felt that missing out on d3 games was far to little a drawback for a model that was essentially a meaner Troll with no upkeep. Even with dropping stats, it was a sticking point that he was risk free. This keeps him from dying outright, but also means that if he dies it's a scramble to build him a new body before he wanders off.

BalrogTheBuff wrote:
Also the special skills are excellent and great for the feel I am getting from the warband.
Thank you, I did my best to make them mostly simple and not overpowered.

BalrogTheBuff wrote:
Also you may want to clarify they can only hire Non-dark elf hired swords. Just in case.

I hadn't actually been aware of any Dark Elf hired swords. Honestly, though, by the background WE seem a touch antagonistic with both HE and DE, so I'm not sure that's a necessary restriction, unless you know of one that has something game-breaking?
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Mon 27 Feb 2012 - 7:30

theres a Dark Elf Assassin that is incredibly powerful. starting Str 4 T4, plus nasty poisons and gear. its just broken lol
it was in TC12
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Mon 27 Feb 2012 - 15:32

Hmm. Are there any High Elf hired swords? I'm thinking about disallowing Elven hired swords that are explicitly High or Dark Elves, but the only Elves I can think of are Aenur and the Elf Ranger.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Mon 27 Feb 2012 - 15:57

Well I would still restrict it anyways. Never know if you or another in your group even may make one. Or even just cut to the chase and say they cannot hire any HS unless the HS says specifically they can work for Asrai.

I for one want to see how these turn out after playtesting! As I mentioned before my Wife likes Wood Elves in mordheim and this would be a good warband that could be a fun way for her to play.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves homebrew - Asrai Wayfarers    Mon 27 Feb 2012 - 20:10

I would think the elven ranger would be allowed, i envisioned it always as a wood elf. But any way i think just allowing all non dark elf elves as hired swords would be fine. Also I would say any Bretonnian hired swords (if there are ever any made) would be allowed as well considering there close ties.
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