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 Three Rules I Need Help With.

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milostnik



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PostSubject: Three Rules I Need Help With.    Sun 12 Feb 2012 - 2:28

Hey guys, New to the forum. Just needed a hand with afew rules etc.

1) Helmets and Undead: I read somewhere on mordheimer tactics that its best to equip your Vampire with a Helmet. I thought that with the no Pain Rule that you would never need a helmet. Is that just a type-o or is there a rule i'm missing out on?

2) Pistols in Close Combat: I am not to sure at the moment that if you give a character a brace of pistols (two pistols) if they can use it in all the turns of close combat or not? And if so is it always 2 attacks, one attack each round at a ST4 hit. Or is it two pistols in the first round of combat then have to use hand weapons?

3) Leaders and Heroes: This is one that has been doing my head in since I started playing it years ago. When a leader dies (Other than the Undead Warband), your next best LD hero must take command. Now for example if you are play with Witch Hunters and your Captain dies, lets say one of the Witch Hunters is next in line. Does that mean he becomes a Witch Hunter Captain or a Witch Hunter who is the leader. I guess my main point is, do you still get 3 Witch Hunters and your Promoted Witch Hunter or do you only get 2 Witch Hunters now with one of them as the leader? And then if he dies you only have 3 heroes left, you cannot buy anymore?

Cheers guys, I hope all is well in the world of Mordheim with you.

Regards

-A
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Aureus
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PostSubject: Re: Three Rules I Need Help With.    Sun 12 Feb 2012 - 3:38

1) Helmets on a vampire are a waste, since vampire cannot be stunned because of "feel no pain" rule.

2) pistols can be used only in the first round of combat, after that you switch them to whatever CC weapon that model have. Oh, and remember about "prepared shot" rule - you cannot fire a pistol if it is not loaded.

3) There was something in the errata about it. If you lose your starting leader, he is replaced by a hero with highest amount of experience (not leadership), I recall. And since that newly promoted hero still remains a hero of the same type, you cannot buy yourself another one (witch hunter remains a witch hunter - and you can have only three of those). Thats why losing a leader sucks.
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PostSubject: Re: Three Rules I Need Help With.    Sun 12 Feb 2012 - 3:58

...and there's nothing more to add.
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PostSubject: Re: Three Rules I Need Help With.    Sun 12 Feb 2012 - 4:56

Cheers for the info. I never really got to play that rule as I have always played Undead, but its just some stuff I'm glad you cleared up. So say if that Witch Hunter Dies and you got 2 witch hunters left. Does that mean you can buy another one to make it three?
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PostSubject: Re: Three Rules I Need Help With.    Sun 12 Feb 2012 - 5:29

Yup. Only "default" leaders are irreplaceable, with exception of vampires.
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PostSubject: Re: Three Rules I Need Help With.    Sun 12 Feb 2012 - 7:10

Aureus wrote:

3) There was something in the errata about it. If you lose your starting leader, he is replaced by a hero with highest amount of experience (not leadership), I recall. And since that newly promoted hero still remains a hero of the same type, you cannot buy yourself another one (witch hunter remains a witch hunter - and you can have only three of those). Thats why losing a leader sucks.

If I'm not mistaken the rulebook states as following, on p. 78:

death of a leader
If the leader of the warband is slain, the Hero with the next highest Leadership value takes command. He then gains the Leader ability (although he must continue to use his original Skill list) and can use the Equipment list available to the leader. If there is more than one Hero eligible to assume command, the warrior with the most Experience points becomes the leader. In the case of a tie roll a D6 to decide the new leader. Note that you may not hire a new leader for your warband.


I've been unable to find the errata of which you mention. Do you remember where you read it? Just curious study
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Aureus
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PostSubject: Re: Three Rules I Need Help With.    Sun 12 Feb 2012 - 12:59

Hm, youre right. Leadership goes first, experience second. Guess my memory doesn't serve me as it used to Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: Three Rules I Need Help With.    Mon 13 Feb 2012 - 7:27

2: pistols; you have a few options.
-you can use both in the first round and then have to switch to your close combat weapon for the second round of H2H. On 3rd round you can again use both.
-use pistol in one hand and close combat weapon in the other, this allows you for a brace to fire each turn with a pistol.
End result is for ether you must take a full turn to reload pistols (and other black powder) before you can shoot again; but you can still do other things when reloading.
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PostSubject: Re: Three Rules I Need Help With.    Mon 13 Feb 2012 - 7:50

Hmm
rulebook:
Quote :
Hand-to-hand: Pistols can be used in hand-to-hand combat as well as for shooting. A model armed with a pistol and another close combat weapon gains +1 Attack, which is resolved at Strength 4 with a -2 save modifier. This bonus attack can be used only once per combat. If you are firing a brace of pistols, your model can fight with 2 Attacks in the first turn of close combat. These attacks are resolved with a modelís Weapon Skill like any normal close combat attack and likewise may be parried. Successful hits are resolved at Strength 4 and with a -2 save modifier, regardless of the firerís Strength.

@Pervavita What you say is a real revelation to me! I have to admit we always played like this: pistol/brace - first round of combat only. So now, potentially I can have 2 rounds with one S4 attack, right? If I have a brace.

However I'm not sure that brace fired in my 1st round of combat can be fired in 3rd due to reloading. Rulebook says, it can be used "in the first turn of close combat". Am I only resricted by reloading?


Last edited by catachanfrog on Mon 13 Feb 2012 - 9:37; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Three Rules I Need Help With.    Mon 13 Feb 2012 - 9:37

"This bonus attack can be used only once per combat" - so I guess no reloading and firing again during combat. One pistol = one shot.
Besides, If you switch pistol to sword, you cannot switch back.
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PostSubject: Re: Three Rules I Need Help With.    Tue 14 Feb 2012 - 6:18

Quote :
-you can use both in the first round and then have to switch to your close combat weapon for the second round of H2H. On 3rd round you can again use both.

You mean on the 3rd TURN not round - and everything is as it was before. no revelations. Crying or Very sad

Quote :
Besides, If you switch pistol to sword, you cannot switch back.
But I can switch to another pistol! Razz check PM damn your eyes!
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PostSubject: Re: Three Rules I Need Help With.    Tue 14 Feb 2012 - 13:16

Aureus wrote:
Quote :
There was something in the errata about it. If you lose your starting leader, he is replaced by a hero with highest amount of experience (not leadership), I recall. And since that newly promoted hero still remains a hero of the same type, you cannot buy yourself another one (witch hunter remains a witch hunter - and you can have only three of those). Thats why losing a leader sucks.

My reading of the rule suggests that the hero replacement becomes the new leader and takes up the leader slot: this means you can still have the 3 witch hunters as well. All the rule is saying is that the new leader comes (is elected) from within the group, he/she can't be bought from outside.! The difference with vampires is that the vampire is using his 'supernatural' abilities to control the undead etc. and once he dies the band disperses/disintegrates.
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PostSubject: Re: Three Rules I Need Help With.    Tue 14 Feb 2012 - 14:48

The_Ferret wrote:

My reading of the rule suggests that the hero replacement becomes the new leader and takes up the leader slot: this means you can still have the 3 witch hunters as well. All the rule is saying is that the new leader comes (is elected) from within the group, he/she can't be bought from outside.! The difference with vampires is that the vampire is using his 'supernatural' abilities to control the undead etc. and once he dies the band disperses/disintegrates.

I just looked it up again - its in the 2002 Annual p.108

"Q: Can orc warband purchase another Big'Un if his first Big'Un became a leader and he still has one other big'Un?
A:No. The new leader is still a Big'Un, albeit with leader ability. You can fill the hero spot with promoted orcs, but you may never have more than two Big'Uns"

So a model of specified type remains a model of that type. If there are limitations towards max number of specified hero/henchmen type in your warband it means you cannot have more of them than it is stated in the rules. Example: no more than three witch hunters (even when one becomes a leader) or no more than five flaggellants (even if one of them rolls LGT and becomes a hero).

Vampires are another story - together with necromancer they keep warband alive (more or less), and they are awesome fighters and undead warband main asset. Making them irreplaceable would break the undead (and they are not the strongest warband around). Plus, vampire resurrection is fluffy Smile

I often mix up errata with annual Embarassed sorry for the confusion.

Aaanndd wow, I just read, that winning a scenario grants one additional re-roll, not another dice for the exploration I must have overlooked this before, what a bummer Sad


Edit:
Found something about pistols too

Errata p.15
Q: can weapons be swapped during combat?
A:No, with the exception of a pistol and lances witch may be exchanged for a different after their first turn special attack

This implies, that pistols are for the first turn only. Plus, regular pistols CC rules state, that you can make two shooting attacks in the first turn of combat. I think those two add up, it would be silly to override this by simply switching one pistol to other for next couple of turns Smile And since You cannot have more than a brace of those (you can take a brace of dueling pistols to override even that, but I am still of the opinion, that pistols are first turn only), there is little point in restraining yourself in the first turn.



Last edited by Aureus on Tue 14 Feb 2012 - 15:24; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Three Rules I Need Help With.    Tue 14 Feb 2012 - 15:01

The standard rules grant the re-roll. The Errata give the +1 dice.
I will hunt for the exact quote though.

edit: I know I read this some place but can not find the rule change in the errata. Any one else know where to find this or am I remembering wrong?
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PostSubject: Re: Three Rules I Need Help With.    Tue 14 Feb 2012 - 15:32

Pervavita wrote:
The standard rules grant the re-roll. The Errata give the +1 dice.
I will hunt for the exact quote though.

edit: I know I read this some place but can not find the rule change in the errata. Any one else know where to find this or am I remembering wrong?

You sir, are correct. Additional dice it is.

Its in the annual p.102 - I just read it the other way around Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: Three Rules I Need Help With.    Tue 14 Feb 2012 - 15:45

Aureus - thanks for finding that reference Smile
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