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 Zombies vs Skeleton

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MrBromley
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PostSubject: Zombies vs Skeleton    Fri 10 Feb 2012 - 3:03

Why is the warhammer Zombie weaker then the Skeleton warrior?
a zombie is actually if you have not noticed a skeleton with more flesh hanging on him.

why would any necromancer or puppetmaster of dead body's make the bones of a long dead man to be stronger then a newly dead body with bones and flesh?

would not the flesh parts of the zombie make the zombie more resilient in structural terms compared to a skeleton?

Is it cos they need to use "more" magic and stuff to bring the skeleton back to life that they are better? Why would you not use the same amount of magic to get the zombie back to life?

any necromancers out here that can give me a answer?

Zombies

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 1 0 3 3 1 1 1 2

Skeleton Warriors

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 2 2 3 3 1 2 1 3
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PostSubject: Re: Zombies vs Skeleton    Fri 10 Feb 2012 - 3:38

I think is a cultural problem: think about films and literature:

--The zombies are always slow and stupid (es. Resident Evil, Zombie)

--The skeletons are almost normal warrior, only undead (es. Army of Darkness)

--The ghosts are very powerful (es. The Lord of the Rings)

In you opinion ghosts have to be the weakest because they haven't even bones?
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PostSubject: Re: Zombies vs Skeleton    Fri 10 Feb 2012 - 4:06

Well, it's not official Warhammer fluff, but here's how I look at it:

~Zombies are dead bodies that have yet to completely decay. Magic jump starts them back into life, and tells the body to keep going, despite the failure of many organs. Thus, they require very little magic to maintain. However, while they are immune to pain, damaging them DOES increase the chance of the zombie dying- the magic can only override so many failing functions before the body cannot physically keep going. You basically have the fighting equal of a man with tuberculosis. If a zombie is not killed, it will eventually rot until it is useless.

Small side-track (will get there eventually)
~Wights are powerful spirits that have taken control of a skeleton (perhaps their own, perhaps not). These spirits are the embodiment of left over emotion- hate, greed, pride- that is strong enough to at last their life by several hundred years. Thus, they are a force to be reckoned with. It doesn't matter if the physical form is hurt, because it is independent of the rest of the system- they keep going like the terminator.

~Skeletons, meanwhile, are COMPLETELY run by magic. There are no organs to jump-start- instead, they are just magical puppets. While they can be easily lead around one action at a time, a necromancer has to give them some automation. So, he holds a seance, finds a powerful spirit- and rips it to pieces. Put each piece into a skeleton, and it now has some drive and faint memories of what to do with a sword. This is easier to summon than a wight, but skeletons requires more focus from the necromancer, as they are far from being completely autonomous. They are not quite terminator powerful, but in theory, the stronger the caster or the spell, the more strength behind their blows.

Oh, and in Mordheim, zombies have WS2 too. So, if WHFB that's the only thing that bugs you, the General forum might be a better fit for this topic.
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PostSubject: Re: Zombies vs Skeleton    Fri 10 Feb 2012 - 7:43

I have a necromancers retinue warband,
The Skeletons can gain xp, but the zombies can be brought back to life during the game.

If its structural integrity which is bothering you about zombies having the same toughness as skeletons i think that the fact that zombies are just meat and skeletons are just bone both have equal Pro's and Con's (ie bones are magically floating meaning grievous damage must done to the bone to put down the creature, same as meat when it is unfeeling, both are as easily stabbed as a human but doing lethal damage to either is difficult) .

Personally i think the debate over which is more resilient is like who would win in a fight between batman and superman because it just opinion, but i think zombies should have the skill resilient, and skeletons a 5+ unmodified save against shooting.

This represents zombies being harder to kill in melee (more attempts to shoot it in the head).
and the skeleton being harder to shoot because the arrow ( or other projectile) may goes right through. this also makes a skeleton in light armour with a shield more dangerous and zombie packs more frighting
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MrBromley
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PostSubject: Re: Zombies vs Skeleton    Fri 10 Feb 2012 - 13:02

well i have thought about it for some time and i only wanted to see if any one else had the same idea. but i guess sorting out thousands of bones makes the necromancers prouder and thus giving them more magic.

there are no skeletons officially in mordheim unfortunately so i took the comparison with WHFB.

it only seems a bit illogical to make zombies weaker the skeletons. but i guess skeletons would be more frightening then a zombie that you might more able to mistake for a living person in a bad light.

Ghosts seem to me be more spirits of the dead still on this plane and not reanimated dead. but i don't rely know much about the fluff.





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PostSubject: Re: Zombies vs Skeleton    Fri 10 Feb 2012 - 14:00

StyrofoamKing wrote:
Well, it's not official Warhammer fluff, but here's how I look at it:

~Zombies are dead bodies that have yet to completely decay. Magic jump starts them back into life, and tells the body to keep going, despite the failure of many organs. Thus, they require very little magic to maintain. However, while they are immune to pain, damaging them DOES increase the chance of the zombie dying- the magic can only override so many failing functions before the body cannot physically keep going. You basically have the fighting equal of a man with tuberculosis. If a zombie is not killed, it will eventually rot until it is useless.

Small side-track (will get there eventually)
~Wights are powerful spirits that have taken control of a skeleton (perhaps their own, perhaps not). These spirits are the embodiment of left over emotion- hate, greed, pride- that is strong enough to at last their life by several hundred years. Thus, they are a force to be reckoned with. It doesn't matter if the physical form is hurt, because it is independent of the rest of the system- they keep going like the terminator.

~Skeletons, meanwhile, are COMPLETELY run by magic. There are no organs to jump-start- instead, they are just magical puppets. While they can be easily lead around one action at a time, a necromancer has to give them some automation. So, he holds a seance, finds a powerful spirit- and rips it to pieces. Put each piece into a skeleton, and it now has some drive and faint memories of what to do with a sword. This is easier to summon than a wight, but skeletons requires more focus from the necromancer, as they are far from being completely autonomous. They are not quite terminator powerful, but in theory, the stronger the caster or the spell, the more strength behind their blows.

Oh, and in Mordheim, zombies have WS2 too. So, if WHFB that's the only thing that bugs you, the General forum might be a better fit for this topic.

That is how I think about it.

A zombie is like taking an old car and wrapping a little duct tape around a few parts to get it running again. A skeleton is like stripping the thing down to its frame and replacing the whole power train.
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