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 Kingdoms of Ind- Beastmen Warband

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jackalope
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PostSubject: Kingdoms of Ind- Beastmen Warband   Sat 17 Dec 2011 - 2:59

Ind Beastmen

The Beastmen of Ind, unlike those known to the Empire, take many different forms and traits. The taint of chaos seems to have evolved in the sweltering jungles where many Beastmen tribes roam. Unlike their harsh brethren to the West, those that live in the Kingdoms of Ind are more cultured and integrated into the outer edges of society. It is not unknown for them to wear the clothing of men, or even trade with them, but it is foolish to forget that Beastmen are not human and are fearsomely wild when provoked.

Max. size 15 models. Minimum 3.

Heroes

1 Beastman Chieftain
70 Gold Crowns to Hire
The most powerful figure in a tribe. It is a Chieftain's responsibility to lead his brethren through danger and battle, as well as disputes and conflicts that may rise within the tribe itself.

M WS BS S T W I A LD
5 4 3 4 4 1 4 1 8

Weapons/Armour: May choose weapons, armour, and beast traits from the Beastkin List.

Special Rules
Leader: Any models in the warband within 6" of the Chieftain may use his Leadership instead of their own.


0-3 Bloodkin
45 Gold Crowns to Hire
Those Beastmen with the closest ties to the Chieftain will take leadership positions within the tribe, assisting them in maintaining control, and helping them in battle.

M WS BS S T W I A LD
5 4 3 4 4 1 3 1 7

Weapons/Armour: May choose weapons, armour, and beast traits from the Beastkin List.


0-1 Shaman
45 Gold Crowns to Hire
Individuals with a powerful connection to the spirits and dark gods that inhabit the strange Ind jungles. Shaman are both feared and respected within a tribe.

M WS BS S T W I A LD
5 4 3 3 4 1 3 1 6

Weapons/Armour: May choose weapons and beast traits from the Beastkin List.

Special Rules
Animal Power: A Shaman Starts with one Animal Power. When choosing a skill a Shaman can opt to roll for another Animal Power instead.
Wizard: A Shaman cannot wear armour of any kind.





Henchmen (In groups of 1-5)

0-5 Beastkin
35 Gold Crowns to Hire
Beastkin are large and powerful. Many different forms exist in the Kingdoms of Ind, and most tribes are made up of one type, but occasionally others will join a tribe if it benefits both parties.

M WS BS S T W I A LD
5 4 3 3 4 1 3 1 6

Weapons/Armour: May choose weapons, armour, and beast traits from the Beastkin List.


Unkin
25 Gold Crowns to Hire
Considered unfinished by most Beastkin tribemen, these small and spiteful creatures are allowed to stay with the Beastmsn as long as they make themselves useful.

M WS BS S T W I A LD
4 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 6

Weapons/Armour: May choose weapons, armour, and from the Unkin List.

Special Rules
Small horns: Unkin are on the lowest rung of Beastkin society and regardless of how much Experience they accrue they will never acquire a position of authority. If an Unkin rolls "That lad's got talent" skill, it must be re-rolled.


0-1 Great Beast
190 Gold Coins to Hire
Sometimes a tribe will come across a beast much larger and more powerful than themselves. Often then the tribe will try to recruit the Great Beast, as it is far better to be fighting with one than against .

M WS BS S T W I A LD
6 4 3 4 4 3 4 3 7

Weapons/Armour: May choose weapons, armour, and beast traits from the Beastkin List.

Special Rules:
Fear: Great Beasts are huge, bellowing monsters and cause Fear. See Psychology section for details.
Large Target: Great Beasts are Large Targets as defined in the shooting rules.
Animal: A Great Beast is far more bestial than its Beastkin brethren and although it may gain experience it may never become a Hero.



Skill Lists
Combat Shooting Academic Strength Speed
Cheiftan x - - x x
Bloodkin x - - x -
Shaman x - - - x

Beast traits
A Beastman warband may choose from the list of Animal traits and gain the benefits. Each model may only choose one animal trait and if it is different from that of the Chieftain's it will cost +10gc.
All henchmen within a group must share the same beast trait.

15gc- Dog- +1 A if attacking within 6 of a friendly model. Leader skill increased to 12.
20gc- Tiger +1 S
20gc -Ape/Monkey +1 I and start with 'Wall Running'
15gc -Bull -charge- may attack with a +2 S first round of combat, if charging.
35gc- Bat 12 flight movement
40gc- Elephant +1 T +1 W

Animal Power
Shaman start with the Animal Power corresponding to the Beast Trait they have taken. Any further Animal Powers taken in exchange for skills must be rolled. Any power maybe exchanged for the 'Sign of the Beast'. A Shaman that has no Beast Trait starts with ' Sign of the Beast.'

Auto- Sign of the Beast -D6- Can force enemy model within 12 to reroll any one dice roll in his next turn.
1. Dog- Howl of the Pack -D9- All friendly models within 18 of the caster pass any Ld tests in their next turn.
2. Tiger- Eye of the Tiger- D7- Causes a single model within 12" to either pass a Ld-test or flee.
3. Ape/Monkey- Cloud of the Monkey God- D7- Instantly flies to any spot within 12"; can even be used to fly out of or into close combat, if flying in counts as charging.
4. Bull- Blessed Cow- D6- If successful caster may leave combat without being attacked, and ranged enemies must pass a Ld test in order to target the caster in the following turn.
5. Bat- Bat Swarm- D7- One enemy targetted suffers d6+1 str 2 attacks.
6. Elephant- Stomp- D9- If successful one enemy within base contact is automatically knocked down.



Beastman Equipment

Beastman List

Melee Weapons
Dagger first free/2 gc
Mace/Hammer 3gc
Axe 5gc
Sword 10 gc
Spear 10gc
Halberd 10gc
Double Handed Wpn 15gc

Range Weapons
Short Bow 5gc
Bow 10gc
Crossbow 25gc

Armour
Shield 5gc
Light ar. 20gc


Unkin List

Melee Weapons
Dagger first free/2 gc
Mace/Hammer 3gc
Spear 10gc

Range Weapons
Short Bow 5gc
Bow 10gc

Armour
Shield 5gc
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jackalope
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PostSubject: Re: Kingdoms of Ind- Beastmen Warband   Sat 17 Dec 2011 - 3:04

My second attempt at a warband, feedback welcome.

I'm sure that the price for the traits are probably unbalanced, I was mostly guessing. I know it's probably a bit indulgent to be able to have multiple animal types (beast traits) within a warband, but I figure if anyone was willing to convert models for this warband then it should be allowed (with some penalty).

Tiger men in bright jackets, wielding curved swords anyone?
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PostSubject: Re: Kingdoms of Ind- Beastmen Warband   Sat 17 Dec 2011 - 8:34

Pretty good. Some thoughts:

First off, you based a lot of it off of the Beastman v2 warband- which is not a bad thing. But you changed one very crucial thing: you raised the Chieftain's Ld from 7 to 8. It might seem like a small thing, but that could change the whole game completely.

Beastman are as tough as dwarves, fast as skaven, and as strong as flaggellants. Only ONE thing keeps them from being broken- their low, low leadership. If you can kill enough of the crazy-tough guys, they are 14% more likely to rout than a human (of much weaker strength).

That's the only real beef I have with the greater list... personally, I always thought that the beastman should have 4 heroes instead of 5, but that's more of a personal opinion. One the one hand, these beastman could be stronger than the normal because they can buy bonuses- on the other hand, they traded a centigor for a weaker hero, so it probably balances out.

Maybe consider putting in jungle animals as a henchman type. Maybe they have to match the same type as the leader or shaman?

Now, on to the special animal types:

First, what happens if a person doesn't pick an animal type? I understand not forcing them to take one, but you're left with a problem- in not forcing an animal type on them, the implied flavor by not picking is, "they have no type." That's just bad. some options:

a. Goat: default. No cost. Or another "free" type.

b.The Half-formed: give a cruel name to the beasts that are stuck between more than one animal. Maybe that's your new unkin- the half-formed are seen as the lower caste among the animals, and the Unkins may not take a type. They are so obsessed with purity of form that you may not have an Unform leader if any of the Bloodkin take a type- they will not follow a lesser creature.

c. The default type grants a Negative stat that grants a -1 to a stat and a discount price? Serpentmen, maybe? (The Naga show up in Indian myth... give them -1 Initiav and -5gc price).

Your current animals:

Dogs: Dogs are lame, domesticated animals. Go with hyenas or wolves. also, +1 attack is pretty good. Just saying.

Tiger: With +1 S, you'd have 4 S5 heroes... that's kind of crazy. May I suggest instead +1 Movement and access to Speed Skills? You'd have a running, leaping army of agile monsters. Also, you gave the other tigers: "In addition tigers can reroll failed iniative checks for falling or diving charges." Maybe that applies to them too? Reroll diving charges would fit these guys great.

Monkey: Um, do you mean "Scale Sheer Surfaces"? Don't know "wall running." Of course, if you're not a native English speaker, it might be the translation. (Don't be offended, there's people from all over the world on here.)

Bull: They have those already- they're called Minotaurs. Pick something else.

Bat: Hmm. Balance-wise, it's always risky to include flying in Mordheim. They can fly to an impossible to reach location, sit out indefinitely, and just wait for their opponent to rout. Except with small scale, I don't think anyone's managed to balance it just yet. You can try gliding (which grants automatically passes fall tests and gives +2" horizontal movement for each vertical 1" dropped), but you would hardly ever see it used.
Bats are a fun idea, but I don't think it can easily work. It doesn't help that there may not be any "bat-men" 28mm figures out there. I guess people can convert their own (harpies, maybe?) but you might want to reconsider this one.

Elephant: This would grant everyone T5. Way too strong. I suggest you stick to the +1 W. Or, for a weaker version, where's a rule I came up with when I wrote the Boaragor warband years ago:

Thick Skin: The first time the boaragor suffers a wound, roll 1D6: on a roll of 4+, the wound is ignored. This only applies the first time a boaragor would suffer a wound- take all further tests as normal.

In a sense, it gave them 1.5 Wounds.

Also, the wounds-only standard fits- the original beastmen had 2Ws, so this takes them back to the old model.


Spells: Not a bad system.

Sign of the Beast: is there a limit to how many times he can use this? Once per game, once per turn? In whose next turn, the shamans or the players? Maybe clarify a little.

Dog: Useful, but still too cute and cuddly. Give them the tiger "scary" spell. Again, this would make more sense with wolves. Wolves howling is scary.

Tiger: If you do take my option to reduce the Tiger strength, maybe this is a place to put it back in: the default tiger spell grants X number of models +1 S. That way, they can still hit hard, but only when the shaman's backing them up. Give the current scary one to the dog.

Love the cloud of the monkey

Weapons: No no no no.
The beastman can't have superior fire power. Take away the crossbows. If there weren't some awesome catmen miniatures with bows, I'd say take away the missiles completely. It's another reason that the beastman can have M5 and T4 and still be fair (that and the low LD).

If you do keep the missiles AND the bat-man, I plead that you don't let the bats use them. A flying model that can shoot is DEFINITELY broken.
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PostSubject: Re: Kingdoms of Ind- Beastmen Warband   Sat 17 Dec 2011 - 12:38

Thanks man for the feedback. (I am native English speaking even if I sound a bit slow.)

Wall Running was a skill I thought I saw on the Skaven list- maybe I'm making it up, but Scale Sheer Surfaces would work.

Dog would work fine as wolf, I just picked dog because there's alway mythology of dog-headed peoples in these exotic places.

I thought Elephant might be too tough, but I thought it might be balanced by how you'd probably end up with much fewer characters in your band in order to pay for it- but I'll nerf it.

My idea was goat was the default. Done. My plan is to incorporate Naga into Ind's version of Lizardmen.

Between harpies and some of the vampire models I'm sure people could come up with bat models, though maybe I'll make a rule that they can't use two handed weapons (because of their arm wings) or something.

Point taken about the missile weapons- I just imagined these Beastmen a bit more comparable to say- orcs with there level of equipment.

You're probably right about the leadership though.
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PostSubject: Re: Kingdoms of Ind- Beastmen Warband   Sat 17 Dec 2011 - 22:09

Wall Running: you're right, I forgot about that one.
Although, Scale Sheer Surfaces is the better of the two- it does the same thing AND lets him climb double. So reason NOT to take scale, unless the hero doesn't have access to Speed.

Wolves vs. jungle-book. Hadn't thought about that. However, I think of "India", and one of the animals that immediately springs to mind after elephants and tigers are wolves (probably from watching the jungle book too many times.) Dogs just seem too "domesticated" to me... although, the fiercest beastmen out there are cows, so maybe that has little to do with it.

Elephant - OR, you merely say - you can only have one elephant in your warband. That way, there's a cap. One T5 model won't be too much, I bet.

Goats as default- that could work. Just describe them in the category under "free", and the fact that they do not have the +10gc added to them.

Naga- That could work, but I still think they could work as beastmen. Consider this: no account of picture of a Naga looks the same. Some versions have them as humans with snake lower bodies, others have them as snakes with armed, humanoid upper halves, some have them as 2 two legged humonoids with snake heads. The best at the multiarmed menaces. To me, that sounds like chaos- they are warped and mutated- sometimes snakes born more human, or sometimes human born more snake. Between the many arms and the occasionally female form, they sound like a version of Slaangors. Maybe have a special skill / mutation an advanced creature can buy?

Bats - Maybe they loose the T4? I don't mind the double handed weapons so much as the missiles. And if they were T3, I bet it would a lot fairer. This is one you'd have to test out to be sure.

Missiles: yeah, give them bows and javelins.. they're still better off than normal beastmen, but they maintain the primitive "away from society" feel. A crossbow is too sophisticated and ruins it (orcs can have that, because they loot EVERYTHING.)



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PostSubject: Re: Kingdoms of Ind- Beastmen Warband   Sun 12 Feb 2012 - 17:01

2nd attempt. Tweaked bits here and there. I'm defending my choice of bull as a animal trait, the Indian 'holy cow' idea is too appealing to pass up ( http://taicarmen.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/stock-photo-statue-of-an-indian-bull-headed-god-437321381.jpg?w=480 ), I know minotaurs exist but who says they're not different in Ind? Made it so bat-guys can't use missle weapons, and swapped some of the spells around as per suggestion. I think this would be a fun- though expensive warband to play.

Ind Beastmen

The Beastmen of Ind, unlike those known to the Empire, take many different forms and traits. The taint of chaos seems to have evolved in the swealtering jungles where many Beastman tribes roam. Unlike their harsh brethren to the West, those that live in the Kingdoms of Ind are more cultured and intergrated into the outer edges of society. It is not unknown for them to wear the clothing of men, or even trade with them, but it is foolish to forget that Beastmen are not human and are fearsomely wild when provoked.

Max. size 15 models. Minimum 3.

Heroes

1 Beastman Chieftain
60 Gold Crowns to Hire
The most powerful figure in a tribe. It is a Chieftain's responsibility to lead his brethren through danger and battle, as well as disputes and conflicts that may rise within the tribe itself.

M WS BS S T W I A LD
5 4 3 4 4 1 4 1 7

Weapons/Armour: May choose weapons, armour, and beast traits from the Beastkin List.

Special Rules
Leader: Any models in the warband within 6" of the Cheiftan may use his Leadership instead of their own.


0-3 Bloodkin
45 Gold Crowns to Hire
Those Beastmen with the closest ties to the Chieftain will take leadership positions within the tribe, assisting them in maintaining control, and helping them in battle.

M WS BS S T W I A LD
5 4 3 4 4 1 3 1 7

Weapons/Armour: May choose weapons, armour, and beast traits from the Beastkin List.


0-1 Shaman
45 Gold Crowns to Hire
Individuals with a powerful connection to the spirits and dark gods that inhabit the strange Ind jungles. Shaman are both feared and respected within a tribe.

M WS BS S T W I A LD
5 4 3 3 4 1 3 1 6

Weapons/Armour: May choose weapons and beast traits from the Beastkin List.

Special Rules
Animal Power: A Shaman Starts with one Animal Power. When choosing a skill a Shaman can opt to roll for another Animal Power instead.
Wizard: A Shaman cannot wear armour of any kind.





Henchmen (In groups of 1-5)

0-5 Beastkin
35 Gold Crowns to Hire
Beastkin are large and powerful. Many different forms exist in the Kingdoms of Ind, and most tribes are made up of one type, but occasionally others will join a tribe if it benefits both parties.

M WS BS S T W I A LD
5 4 3 3 4 1 3 1 6

Weapons/Armour: May choose weapons, armour, and beast traits from the Beastkin List.


Unkin
25 Gold Crowns to Hire
Considered unfinished by most Beastkin tribemen, these small and spiteful creatures are allowed to stay with the Beastmsn as long as they make themselves useful.

M WS BS S T W I A LD
4 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 6

Weapons/Armour: May choose weapons, armour, and from the Unkin List.

Special Rules
Small horns: Unkin are on the lowest rung of Beastkin society and regardless of how much Experience they accrue they will never acquire a position of authority. If an Unkin rolls "That lad's got talent" skill, it must be re-rolled.


0-1 Great Beast
190 Gold Coins to Hire
Sometimes a tribe will come across a beast much larger and more powerful than themselves. Often then the tribe will try to recruit the Great Beast, as it is far better to be fighting with one than against .

M WS BS S T W I A LD
6 4 3 4 4 3 4 3 7

Weapons/Armour: May choose weapons, armour, and beast traits from the Beastkin List.

Special Rules:
Fear: Great Beasts are huge, bellowing monsters and cause Fear. See Psychology section for details.
Large Target: Great Beasts are Large Targets as defined in the shooting rules.
Animal: A Great Beast is far more bestial than its Beastkin brethren and although it may gain experience it may never become a Hero.



Skill Lists
Combat Shooting Academic Strength Speed
Cheiftan x - - x x
Bloodkin x - - x -
Shaman x - - - x

Beast traits
A Beastman warband may choose from the list of Animal traits and gain the benefits. Each model may only choose one animal trait and if it is different from that of the Chieftain's it will cost +10gc.
All henchmen within a group must share the same beast trait.

Free/Automatic- Goat- no modifiers
15gc- Dog/Wolf +1 A if attacking within 6 of a friendly model. Leader skill increased to 12.
20gc- Tiger/Big Cat +1 M, all Heroes with the Tiger trait have access to shooting skills (Henchmen that become heroes can only pick shooting skills if they have a tiger trait)
20gc -Ape/Monkey +1 I and start with 'Scale Shear Surfaces'
15gc -Bull -charge- may swap normal attacks for one attack with a +2 S first round of combat, if charging.
35gc- Bat 12 flight movement, cannot use missle weapons
40gc- Elephant +1 W, all Heroes with the Elephant trait have access to strength skills

Animal Power
Shaman start with the Animal Power corresponding to the Beast Trait they have taken. Any further Animal Powers taken in exchange for skills must be rolled. Any power maybe exchanged for the 'Sign of the Beast'. A Shaman that has no Beast Trait starts with ' Sign of the Beast.'

Auto- Sign of the Beast -D6- Can force enemy model within 12 to reroll any one dice roll in his next turn.
1. Dog/Wolf- Howl of the Pack -D10- Causes all enemy models within 18" to either pass a Ld-test or flee.
2. Tiger/Big Cat- Power of the Tiger- D8- Causes all friendly models within 6" to gain +1 Str until the caster's next turn.
3. Ape/Monkey- Cloud of the Monkey God- D7- Instantly flies to any spot within 12"; can even be used to fly out of or into close combat, if flying in counts as charging.
4. Bull- Blessed Cow- D6- If successful caster may leave combat without being attacked, and ranged enemies must pass a Ld test in order to target the caster in the following turn.
5. Bat- Bat Swarm- D7- One enemy targetted suffers d6+1 str 2 attacks.
6. Elephant- Stomp- D9- If successful one enemy within base contact is automatically knocked down.

Beastman Equipment

Beastman List

Melee Weapons
Dagger first free/2 gc
Mace/Hammer 3gc
Axe 5gc
Sword 10 gc
Spear 10gc
Halberd 10gc
Double Handed Wpn 15gc

Range Weapons
Short Bow 5gc
Bow 10gc

Armour
Shield 5gc
Light ar. 20gc


Unkin List

Melee Weapons
Dagger first free/2 gc
Mace/Hammer 3gc
Spear 10gc

Range Weapons
Short Bow 5gc
Javelin 15gc

Armour
Shield 5gc


Last edited by jackalope on Mon 13 Feb 2012 - 16:19; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Kingdoms of Ind- Beastmen Warband   Sun 12 Feb 2012 - 17:53

change the tiger spell to eye of the tiger? Razz and on a more serious not isn't +2 strength on the charge a little too powerful +1S on charge is ok or you could say that they can forfeit their other attacks for one at +2S on the turn they charge. For the Tiger one you might want to add that promoted henchmen that aren't tiger still cannot learn shooting skills. I'm always weary of starting models with 2 wounds so could you limit the number of people that can have it or make it cost a bit more? but apart from that looking good.
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