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Rupert
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PostSubject: Ruperts workshop   Tue 1 Nov 2011 - 13:15

I've already introduced myself in another section, but anyway, hello all Smile
I wrote about boring you with my work, so here is a thread to do that.

I hope you will comment, show me my mistakes, warn if I do something stupid- I'm completely unexperienced as Mordheim player- I used to play WFB and WH40k, so many things that I do might be unplayable and I might not know that yet Smile

At first I'd like to write about a table I'm working on. Yeees, it's another modular table Razz I already own a table for WFB, but I''ve decided to abandon it and start new project for Mordheim.
What I want to achieve is:

1. Dimensions- at first I wanted it to be 48"x48", but as it's going to be modular, I think I will prepare a base that will be suitable also for 48"x72" to be able to play larger games.
2. It will be made of modules 12"x12". For smaller games it will be enough to have 16 modules, for bigger 24.
3. It will allow to play on 3 levels- streets. floors and roofs of the buildings and underground (basements, dungeons, crypts, caves and so on).
4. Material will be hmm I think it's called styrofoam? Am I right? Smile



I want it to be foldable, it's to big to be kept in my flat all the time. My girlfriend would be not really happy about it Wink I would also like to be able to transport it easily. So the base for the table will be made of thin wood and it will fold in the half, to look like a box. Legs will be also separated. I will try to draw it later, it might be hard to understand my mumble Smile

As I wrote before it will be build on styrofoam modules - 2 cm. and 10 cm. If we want to play with 16 modules at the begining we will draw modules to randomize a part of the city. We will start with modules containing river and put those on the table, keeping in mind that river might not fall back. When it gets 4 modules wide we can continue with other modules. When we fininsh we get something like that:



We put all modules on the base of the table, then we draw building and all other scenery and put it in fitting places. Buildings size will be defined by street dimensions, so I will be able to create only few sizes. Offcourse there will be also few modules without streets, so I can create some really large buildings.
Streets will look like that:



Layers.
Ok, and now you can see why I want to have 2 different styrofoams. 2 Cm. styrofoam will be placed (with pins) on 10 cm. , so on module will be 12 cm. high. That's why I need a box shaped table base.



With such a construction type when we use river, we are able to have it lower then streets surface. It will not be flat and painted on the ground. It will also allow us to move are game under the streets. We can have caves, basements and other locations below the streets. Everything depends on the street module. If we place a module with entrance below and suitable building with stairs or something we can move below. If we have 2cm module with entrance, but we don't want to use it. we simply place a building without such an entrance and we play only on street level.

I have no problem with streets. All streets begin at the same poing on each module, so they will fit almost anywhere on the table. Now I think and think if I shall do similiar trick with underground part. If we have tunnel, it might also go through few modules, but it also has to start at the same point on each module. I have to think about it later.
2cm. modules will be placed on pins, so we will be able to take it and look underground. Disadvantage of this solution is that all buildings must be placed only on 1 module at a time. We cannot place big building that is standing on 2 modules, because it will be harder to lift both modules simultaneously.

Here is 1 finished 2cm. module. It takes me about 4-5 hours to create such a street. I do that with ball pen. I know I could create a pattern to do that, but I wanted to have each stone different shape Wink Now after creating few modules I think it might not be the best idea Smile
After creating street, Ive glued sand, use a spray to paint all module black and then drybrushed street with few grey paints and drybrushed sand with few browns. As all my WIP pictrures this one is also taken with horrible light conditions, so it's definitely to bright. Normally module is much darker.




Uff enough for this post. I will write something more later, to avoid boring you to death Smile

I will appreciate all comments and hints.
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JoaoS
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PostSubject: Re: Ruperts workshop   Tue 1 Nov 2011 - 13:35

Wow! That cobblestone is ace! thumbsup

Joao
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weeble1000
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PostSubject: Re: Ruperts workshop   Tue 1 Nov 2011 - 13:58

I agree that your cobbles look ace. The layout of your modules looks good too. The only cautionary thing I have to say is that I'd be wary of using multi-level structures that cannot be accessed unless one level is removed.

Other folks may have different experiences with things like this and might be able to suggest some creative ways to handle it, but I've found that having playable surfaces (that models will be able to access) that cannot be accessed simultaneously can create hiccups in gaming.

For example, if you have a three level building (ground floor, second floor, and roof) that can all hold models but are each mutually inaccessible, what do you do when models want to be on all three levels at the same time?

One solution is to lay out the levels separately, but this comes with its own set of difficulties. I think there's a bigger potential for problems if not only warrior models, but separate terrain pieces are set on mutually inaccessible levels.

Now, I think it would be very, very cool to have a table that's designed with an underground level beneath the street level that can be used to play in streets, sewers, or a mix of the two (with some top parts removed and some left on), but using both levels at the same time could create headaches that you don't want.
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PostSubject: Re: Ruperts workshop   Tue 1 Nov 2011 - 14:09

I like your street (it will be a lot of work to do all that coblestones but it will worth the result). I like your ideas of how to build table too. I hope you keep on working till the end because it sounds like a lot of work to me. Please send a lot of pictures.
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PostSubject: Re: Ruperts workshop   Wed 2 Nov 2011 - 7:15

Great job on the cobblestone. I like your layout a lot. I'm looking forward to seeing more. I agree with Weeble1000 that it can be confusing and difficult to game multiple inaccessable levels at the same time. You can have one level set up on a different table, but it can be difficult to remember minis on the other table, who may have been able to move up or down to the other level.
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Rupert
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PostSubject: Re: Ruperts workshop   Wed 2 Nov 2011 - 8:21

Thank you very much for your comments. Ohhh as I wrote I'm unexperienced Mordhiem playes, so I propably missed those facts and difficulites that you wrote about. I think I will try to finish at least 1 module from the underground up to the roofs and check if it's really difficult to place and play with few models on different levels. But now I can imagine that it really can be a problem Sad I have to think the whole idea again, but I just can't resist all those possibilities it gives. Just imagine those scenarios which can be played. Example- you have to look for something underground, neutral person hides your objective under the streets and you don't know where it is. To find it, your band visits each basement and you check what's below each time they go down. Hmm but now I can also imagine that each time I want to explore lower level, all figures on upper segments of this module suffer from earthquake... Hmm I have to solve it somehow or change the whole idea.
Thank you for pointing this problem Smile

Some more pictures of whats already done:

Next few modules are ready for cobblestone work:



And here 4 painted modules togather:



one more shot taken during invasion of strange fury creature Wink




I wonder if I shall use some kind of varnish on finished modules. I have alredy seen few spots from which sand fell off. I will have to paint those spots again.

Here is one more pic, taken during the day:




Let me know if you have more suggestions or ideas that might help me to improve this project Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Ruperts workshop   Wed 2 Nov 2011 - 8:23

VERY NICE WORK! the cobbles look TERRIFIC & your choice of colors brings it to life in a striking manner. thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Ruperts workshop   Sat 26 Nov 2011 - 22:18

Would you care to share or pm me how you painted your ground color?

This is looking really good!
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PostSubject: Re: Ruperts workshop   Sun 27 Nov 2011 - 13:44

Thanks!

Sure, it's not a secret Smile

I've covered all ground parts with glue and and then applied sand on it. Next day I've painted alll module with black acrylic spray (acrylic didn't ruined my styrofoam). Then I've painted it with Citadel paints, but if I were me again I would rather use acrylic paints for painters instead of those from GW. It would be cheaper and I wouldn't use one jar of paint per 4 modules Wink I did it in this way: drybrush with Scorched Brown, drybrush with Bestial Brown, drybrush with Snakebite Leather and final drybrush with Bleached Bone. Don't be too tidy, do not cover all ground surface with the same amount of each layer. Use more dark browns in one part and more light in the other. I didn't do that with my first module and it was hmmm "too clean". Ground ought to have huge spectum of colours in my opinion Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Ruperts workshop   Sat 21 Sep 2013 - 15:19

Hello.

It's time to ressurect this topic again. I gave up Mordheim projects for 2 years and devoted my time to WFB. Now I feel that winter is coming, I will have more time during the evenings so I've decided to come back to Mordheim. I'd like to start over my project MMMT - Modular Movable Mordheim Table ;)I came back to my notes, bring back my box with Mordheim unfinished stuff from my basement, read all the comments again and decided to change my plans a little bit.

What I want to achive:

1. Goals are pretty the same- I want to have modular table, so each game could be different. I want it to be foldable and portable, so I could store it in my basement or take it to the tournament.
2. Modules - 24 modules. For small games I will use 16 center modules, so playable surface will be 48"x48". For larger game I will use all 24 modules- 72"x48" playable surface.
3. I gave up the idea of playing on different levels at the same time. I will still use the advantage of different height styrofoam, but rather in a different way. I will create channel for river, I will create higher ares, maybe some crypts or smth similiar, but I will create those on areas where you cannot place buildings.
4. Modules will not contain buildings. I will creat streets, squares, higher and lower areas, but players will be able to put buildings or areas like markets, graveyards and other wherever they want. Or maybe not wherever they want, because they will be limited by terrain features, so on some areas they will be able to put larger construction, on others only tiny ones.
5. Modules will be created from styrofoam- 0,8" (2 cm.) thick. Average height of terrain will be 4 modules (one on each other). Higher grounds will be created by glueing togather 5 modules, lower -3 modules.

Here are some highly detailed construction schemes created by a group of engineers Wink

Table splitted on 24 modules:



The table itself will look like that:



With legs attached:



Offcourse instead of standing on legs it will be possible to put it on any other flat surface.

What I'm not sure of is high of the border of the table. Right now it's 4", so the highest modules (4") will be at the same lever, but lower modules will be lower then the border. I'm not sure it's ok. Advantage of that is that when I fold the table I can keep all the modules inside and transpor them like that. It will be also more difficult to throw models or building off the table. Disadvantage is that I'm not sure if it looks good and if it does not disturb gameplay somehow... any suggestions?

My current goals:
1. Build styrofoam cutting machine - styrofoam is sold in pieces 50"x24", so I have to cut each piec on 8 parts to get my modules. I've already draw scheme of my machine and order parts. Next week it should be ready. Styrofoam will be also delivered so I will get my modules next week.
2. Build the table frame. Scheme is ready. I was supposed to get all needed materials today, but my car broke down, so I have to wait and deal with that next week. In 2 weeks it should be ready.

If you were strong enough to read that all, please give me some advices or point some mistakes Smile

regards!
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PostSubject: Re: Ruperts workshop   Sat 21 Sep 2013 - 17:50

I suspect that you may have noted these concerns already and I understand that you are just providing rough drawings, but I feel compelled to point out that your drawings only give interior dimensions. The framing of your table will be bigger than the drawing. And it should be a little bigger than the given dimensions to allow you to get the modules in and out for re-positioning. Otherwise you will find yourself wedging things in once and living with it. Very Happy 

Also you won't be able to transport all of your modules inside the table because the ones inside of the 32"x 48" wings will need somewhere to go when it is closed. The 8"x 48" section must needs be empty to allow it to close.

Finally I expect you are a strong person (or have strong, indulgent friends) because this is going to be hefty.
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Rupert
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PostSubject: Re: Ruperts workshop   Mon 7 Oct 2013 - 3:54

Hey,

Yes, those drawings show interior dimensions, I forgot to write that. Frame will be little bigger. I've decided to wait with purchasing materials for the frame- I want to have modules ready first to see how dimensions will differ from what I've expected.
It was good decision because it turned out that styrofoam which was supposed to be 120x60 cm. is not exactly like that. Some modules are 120x60, but others are 120x59 cm. , so I had to change dimension of single module to 29,5x29,5 cm. I will lose 4 cm. on the longer edge of table, but I guess that's not a problem.

Last week I went to my parents house, and built styrofoam cutting table with my father. We had few problems with that- I couldn't properly adjust voltage to string lenght and diameter, but it finally worked.

Few pics:





Results Smile



Now this pyramid of cut styrofoam is stored in my bedroom (my girlfriend is not really happy about this new piece of furniture Wink) and I can start modules creation.
I will start with glueing tests- I have to check which glue will be the best option for putting one module on another- up to 5 modules.


Last edited by Rupert on Mon 7 Oct 2013 - 6:33; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Ruperts workshop   Mon 7 Oct 2013 - 5:45

WELCOME BACK! Good luck with your project...don't over complicate the Beasty. thumbsup 
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PostSubject: Re: Ruperts workshop   Mon 7 Oct 2013 - 11:26

She's still your girlfriend after all this time?! Hurry up and make an honest woman of her! Just kidding. Board looks great, keep up the good work.
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Rupert
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PostSubject: Re: Ruperts workshop   Mon 7 Oct 2013 - 12:44

Yup, we made few agreements- I keep bigger projects and materials in our basement and she got used to be surrounded by orcs and goblins Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Ruperts workshop   Mon 7 Oct 2013 - 17:55

Oh my, all of that foam is so inpiring. Dungeons are fun, I'll watch this.
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PostSubject: Re: Ruperts workshop   Today at 20:04

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